Getting parameters in check

[TanksNStuff]

He does have a RO/DI, not sure on what salt brand though. I think Reef Crystals?

First off, I agree that water changes should be the first move before dosing anything! Also, if/when you dose, read the instructions carefully, and keep a calculator handy. Don't forget to estimate how many gallons are being displaced by your rock too... you probably have 10-15 gallons displaced by your rock. You should include the volume in your sump too of course.

I've used the Brightwell Magnesion but not the Elemental. It's a pretty good product but there are much cheaper alternatives that you can get. Bulk Reef Supply sells it where you mix the main ingredients with your RO/DI and you get a gallon for around $10. The Brightwell product is pre-mixed, but you get 17 oz. for about $8. Big difference in cost! I believe the BRS product is more Mag sulfate in their mixture than most commercial brands too.

The Magnesion will get your Mg up to where it should be. This is strictly a concentrated magnesium supplement. Don't add more than the recommended daily dosage! Slower changes are better for just about everything in this hobby.

The Elemental looks like a combo of Cal/Mag/Stront. This is probably good to add maybe once a week to try to keep your params balanced. Probably not as good as a 2-part system, but essentially it's trying to do the same thing if you also dose an Alk supplement. I'd be cautious with this one because, although Strontium is an essential element in reef tanks, you don't have a test kit for that and I'm not sure the +/- of having too much of that.

I'll say it again though Dave... I think your tank is too young to really need to be supplementing anything. You should do a full run of tests on a fresh batch of salt before you add it to your tank (maybe an hour or two after mixing it) and see what you get for Ca/Mg/Alk. It might just be your brand of salt or maybe a bad batch that's giving inadequate levels of these. If that's the case, then a million water changes won't fix the issue (but dosing could correct it.)

 

[fatoldsun]

I have a couple of questions: What salt mix are you using? Do you have an RO/DI unit?

AquaVitro salt
and yes, I do have an RO/DI - my TDS on the output reads 0.0 to 0.1

salinity is read with a pinpoint monitor in the refugium and is running at 1.0256-1.0259. I'd like to bring this up to 1.0262. I recently calibrated it and double checked with my refracometer

also, should note the pH is checked with a ReefKeeper II and a new (and recently calibrated using pinpoint fluids) BRS probe

I'm suspicious of some of my testing. I like the ease of the Hanna checker I have for Phosphate but I have a ton of hair algae in my sump with a large clump of chaeto and I'm a bit uncomfortable when I see it go from 0.4 to 0.0 in 3 days with no other changes

 

[fatoldsun]

First off, I agree that water changes should be the first move before dosing anything!

Doing one tonight - I think maybe I'm not doing a large enough % change. I've been making up 5g batches and changing 1x a week. I'm not sure how much water I have - tanks are 90+40 but the return in my sump is half full so that's ~-5g and the rock - I guess your est. of 15g will work so figure I have ~ 110g and 5g is a little less than 5%. I see people on here doing 20-30% changes - now that tends to be after they've experienced a problem but I'm not there yet. I think I'm going to rig up something this weekend to allow me to make much larger quantities of SW with each batch so I can do 10-15g as needed - also I'd like to have SW on hand for a change to seed a QT if something comes up.

You should do a full run of tests on a fresh batch of salt before you add it to your tank (maybe an hour or two after mixing it) and see what you get for Ca/Mg/Alk.

I'll test before I do tonight's change - That's been mixed up for a week with a PH and a heater. Of course I mixed that batch strong b/c I want to raise the salinity so maybe I should wait for the next batch ???

 

[downbeach]

I wouldn't drive yourself crazy trying to make everything pinpoint perfect. All your parameters, although a couple are a tad low, look OK, and with water changes using a good reef type salt mix, will gradually come up. You don't seem to have much of a load that will need much Ca and Alk right now. I would allow your tank to mature and stabilize before adding anything too sensitive, it's going to take a while, and patience is going to be key to anyone's success in this hobby. I would go to a 10 gal. a week WC and only do more if you are having a problem. The method you use to make up your water can have an effect too. I like to let my RO/DI water aerate overnight before I add the salt mix, then let it run for another 24 hours before using it. I have a 32 gal. Brute I use, and keep a powerhead for circulation and another for aeration along with a heater.
Are you using any reactors, i.e. GFO and GAC?

 

[fatoldsun]

Are you using any reactors, i.e. GFO and GAC?

I'm running a GFO (PhosBan) and I have a bag of carbon wedged between two of my bubble trap baffles in the sump - I hope to add a reactor for that but I've totally blown the budget for the year and it's only July ;D (well I blew my wife's budget - mine was a bit higher, perhaps unrealistically high but who's counting?)

I guess the suppliments are good to have for down the road but I'm holding off for now

 

[TanksNStuff]

I agree with downbeach on all of his last post.

- Nothing is too far off to be worried about right now.
- Switch to 10G / week WC
- 32G Brute works great for mixing salt, also use 2 powerheads to mix it, but I don't wait 24 hrs before mixing like him. I think aerating is a key point worth noting as that helps keep pH correct... just try to have the powerhead pointing up so that the flow streams above the top level a bit. That helps mix some oxygen in. I leave my Brute lid loosely sitting on the can so it's covered but not locked tight. I'm not using a heater in mine right now because it's hot enough in the garage without it. I do add it in the winter though.

Dave, you can still have a 0.0 phosphate reading in your water column and still have hair algae growing in the sump. You will always have some level of phosphate because it's part of the biological process of your filtration. That's ok though because the hair algae is actually eating some of the phosphates. If you can remove any of the hair algae (scraping it off the glass or removing the rock to rinse in RO would work) then you'll be removing the phosphates from your system. Sumps/fuges are made for this reason... to have an optimum environment for algae to grow that ISN'T in your display. Chaeto and the PhosBan should continue to battle the phosphates as you remove any hair algae you can.

 

[fatoldsun]

Ok, well I'do 5g tonight b/c that's what I have made up and I'll shelf the supplements - I guess I have them if I need them. Add it to the list of stuff I probably didn't need - in good company with the kalk

My concern with the 0.0 phosphate reading was more about feeling like I am using the hanna checker wrong b/c it was 0.4 3 days ago and nothing else was changed. Didn't even switch out the GFO (also doing that tonight as well as cleaning the skimmer and drain section of the sump. - hopefully that will help with the pH.

question about making salt.... if you're sing a 33g brute - do you make up ~30g at a time and just run it down after 3-4 WCs? or do you top it off with RO , add salt and keep a mix of 30g running at all times?
As for aeration - would a small air pump with a stone help? when I move to a larger drum I may have more flexibility but running 2 pumps in a 5g bucket would make a huge mess.

 

[downbeach]

question about making salt.... if you're sing a 33g brute - do you make up ~30g at a time and just run it down after 3-4 WCs? or do you top it off with RO , add salt and keep a mix of 30g running at all times?
As for aeration - would a small air pump with a stone help? when I move to a larger drum I may have more flexibility but running 2 pumps in a 5g bucket would make a huge mess.

I keep about 25 gal. in the can, so it's not too full. I use about 10 gal. per week and just top off the brute with new water and then add the appropriate amount of salt. About every two months I'll use it all and then thoroughly clean the can and usually run the pumps in a little vinegar for a day and then begin the process all over again. I have two old Aquaclear 70's I use in the can, one is sitting in the bottom for circulation and the other is hanging on the side with the venturi tube installed for the aeration.
The addition of a dolly to the Brute is also a good idea.

PS I do have an extra brute and dolly if you're interested PM me.

 

[NikkiT]

1. Mike (mnat) and I use Brightwell products, including Elemental. I personally like them better than the Seachem products. If you take a look at the brightwell alkalinity product (presuming you bought the same one I did), it tells you precisely how much to add to increase ph, and how long it should take you, based on that, to get to 8.3. I like the Brightwell product because it does not push PH over 8.3, although it WILL push your alk up if you use too much. We actually use it on a daily basis, using a dosing pump, to help keep our parameters as stable as possible. We do find that we need to use these products to keep our parameters stable (we don't have a calcium reactor)and our Ca and PH up on our SPS tank. When we get lazy, and don't dose, our SPS tell us they aren't happy by turning, in Tony Vargas' terms, "Sandalwood".
2. We use Aqua Vitro salt. We like it, but it does get a little bit of precipitate in our mixing container and on our pumps, you should plan on cleaning both bi-weekly or at most monthly. I have not tested our current batch of salt, but I did when we switched, and my test results for Ca and Mg and Alk were really close to those listed on the bucket, and my Ph4 test came back negligible.
3. I second the 10% water change suggestion. Frequent water changes will also help starve that hair algae.
4. As George pointed out, the algae is consuming the phosphates, hence the low reading. I have a suggestion for hair algae removal though- get yourself a nice big bucket after your next water change, and put each piece of rock that is growing algae into it, one at a time, and pull it out! It is annoying, and it takes time, but it will work.

 

[fatoldsun]

As George pointed out, the algae is consuming the phosphates, hence the low reading. I have a suggestion for hair algae removal though- get yourself a nice big bucket after your next water change, and put each piece of rock that is growing algae into it, one at a time, and pull it out! It is annoying, and it takes time, but it will work.

Thanks NikkiT
Actually (so far) rocks all ok - the hair algae is mostly in the sump - it's actually growing on the chaeto - all around the skimmer in the sump's drain section and some in the return section. Tonight's WC will incorporate pulling the skimmer (NAC6 so it's internal) and cleaning everything out of there.
there's also some (small sprouts on the DT glass - they're stubborn as hell to clean off and the overflow has a lot but it's out of the DT for now anyway

so I'm taking away from all of this - Bigger water changes - note to self - finish the system to push new SW up to the sump from the basement ;D

 

[fatoldsun]

Last couple rounds of testing....
7/21 8:30PM
Temp 77
pH 7.95
salt 1.026
Ammonia 0.05
Mg 1160
Alk 2.5 / 7
Ca 350
PO4 0

8/1 10:00PM
Temp 78
pH 7.81
salt 1.0257
Ammonia 0.2
Mg 1160
Alk 2.4 / 6.7
Ca 350
PO4 0.04

I also tested a batch of new SW using AquaVitro salt
Mg 1220
Alk 2.5 / 7
Ca 390

So that's a little better but also has me question my testing skills b/c I doubt the batch of AquaVitro's that far off...