-
Folks, if you've recently upgraded or renewed your annual club membership but it's still not active, please reach out to the BOD or a moderator. The PayPal system has a slight bug which it doesn't allow it to activate the account on it's own.
pappone and BLU coral method
- Thread starter nick
- Start date
Blu is decent and much cheaper to implement then some of the others since it's really just running high levels of the main ions in the tank (calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, strontium, etc) but using home made food that's mixed with sugar (Pappone). The food mixture is actually pretty good but messy to make but what I don't care for is the high levels (IE Calcium, Alkalinity, Magnesium) that the Blu Coral method calls for and think they cause more problems then help.
I know pretty much all about PolyLabs, Zeovit, Prodibio, Ultralith & Blu Coral but I run "Open Seas" which shouldn't be a surprise (since it's from my company). I normally don't mention much about what I sell here because I haven't been selling retail, but that is changing as I'm getting more and more requests to do so. I'm actually going to be selling "Open Seas" and everything else at ReefComplete.com at the Frag Swap on Saturday or I wouldn't have even mentioned it here.
But don't let that sway you from trying Blu Coral method or any other (LNS) Low Nutrient System as I can/will help with them too if anyone needs help.
Carlo
I know pretty much all about PolyLabs, Zeovit, Prodibio, Ultralith & Blu Coral but I run "Open Seas" which shouldn't be a surprise (since it's from my company). I normally don't mention much about what I sell here because I haven't been selling retail, but that is changing as I'm getting more and more requests to do so. I'm actually going to be selling "Open Seas" and everything else at ReefComplete.com at the Frag Swap on Saturday or I wouldn't have even mentioned it here.
But don't let that sway you from trying Blu Coral method or any other (LNS) Low Nutrient System as I can/will help with them too if anyone needs help.
Carlo
In all fairness to most low nutrient systems (not sure I'd call Blu Coral this) it can take 6 months to really get things rolling and notice a substantial change. This isn't a fault of the "method" per say, it's just that it takes time for things to change and for your corals to adapt.
For example the basic principle behind most methods is to reduce your dissolved inorganic nutrients (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates) and replace them with organic nutrients. When you can test these levels (above 0 ppm) the coral's zooanthellae has to much available inorganic food sources. The zooanthellae quickly multiply causing a thickening of the cells and abscuring the coral's pigmentation. Nitrates as low a 5 ppm can cause some corals to brown out. Phosphates have the same affect only even worse.
The idea behind most LNS is to get your tank running at unmeasurable levels of nitrate and phosphates. Once at zero it can take a few months for your corals to lighten as the zooanthellae density changes. This is where most people don't give the system enough time or try and rush things and get into problems. As the corals start to lighten from a brown look you then shift the corals nutrient uptake from the nitrates to things like amino acids. Basically switching them from inorganic nutrients to organic nutrients.
Each LNS does this differently for example:
Some components could fit in different spots so I put them where I thought they fit best.
Media
Zeovit - ZEOlites - needs ongoing replacement media
Ultralith - Zeolite - needs ongoing replacement media
PolyLabs - None
Prodibio - None
Open Seas - BioMedia (not zeolites and doesn't need replacing)
Open Seas - BioUP (Ultimate Polish) Mixture of proprietary organic/protein scavenging and ion exchange resins. Regeneratable for about 2 years.
Bacteria Replacement:
Zeovit - ZEObak
Zeovit - ZEOfood
PolyLabs - RF-Genesis
Ultralith - UltraBio
Prodibio - Bio Digest (1 ampule every fortnight for up to 1,000 litres)
Open Seas - BioBZ (Bacteria & Enzymes) very concentrated blend of enzymes and both aerobic & anaerobic bacteria. Not just aerobic bacteria like some of the others.
Bacteria Food:
Zeovit - ZEOstart
PolyLabs - RF-Fuel
Ultralith - UltraBak
Prodibio - Bio Trace (1 ampule every two weeks per 200 litres)
Open Seas - BioFuel
Amino Acids:
Zeovit - Amino Acid High Concentrate
Zeovit - Amino Acid Concentrate LPS
PolyLabs - RF-Acids
Ultralith - Ultramin S
Prodibio - Reef Booster (1 ampule once a week per 400 litres)
Open Seas - BioVA - optional but not normally needed if using BioCF (coral food)
Coral Foods:
Zeovit - Pohl’s Coral Vitalizer (liquid)
PolyLabs - RF-Plus (liquid)
Prodibio - None (part of other product)
Open Seas - BioCF (dry) highly versatile coral food rich in vitamins & amino acids
con't next message
For example the basic principle behind most methods is to reduce your dissolved inorganic nutrients (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, phosphates) and replace them with organic nutrients. When you can test these levels (above 0 ppm) the coral's zooanthellae has to much available inorganic food sources. The zooanthellae quickly multiply causing a thickening of the cells and abscuring the coral's pigmentation. Nitrates as low a 5 ppm can cause some corals to brown out. Phosphates have the same affect only even worse.
The idea behind most LNS is to get your tank running at unmeasurable levels of nitrate and phosphates. Once at zero it can take a few months for your corals to lighten as the zooanthellae density changes. This is where most people don't give the system enough time or try and rush things and get into problems. As the corals start to lighten from a brown look you then shift the corals nutrient uptake from the nitrates to things like amino acids. Basically switching them from inorganic nutrients to organic nutrients.
Each LNS does this differently for example:
Some components could fit in different spots so I put them where I thought they fit best.
Media
Zeovit - ZEOlites - needs ongoing replacement media
Ultralith - Zeolite - needs ongoing replacement media
PolyLabs - None
Prodibio - None
Open Seas - BioMedia (not zeolites and doesn't need replacing)
Open Seas - BioUP (Ultimate Polish) Mixture of proprietary organic/protein scavenging and ion exchange resins. Regeneratable for about 2 years.
Bacteria Replacement:
Zeovit - ZEObak
Zeovit - ZEOfood
PolyLabs - RF-Genesis
Ultralith - UltraBio
Prodibio - Bio Digest (1 ampule every fortnight for up to 1,000 litres)
Open Seas - BioBZ (Bacteria & Enzymes) very concentrated blend of enzymes and both aerobic & anaerobic bacteria. Not just aerobic bacteria like some of the others.
Bacteria Food:
Zeovit - ZEOstart
PolyLabs - RF-Fuel
Ultralith - UltraBak
Prodibio - Bio Trace (1 ampule every two weeks per 200 litres)
Open Seas - BioFuel
Amino Acids:
Zeovit - Amino Acid High Concentrate
Zeovit - Amino Acid Concentrate LPS
PolyLabs - RF-Acids
Ultralith - Ultramin S
Prodibio - Reef Booster (1 ampule once a week per 400 litres)
Open Seas - BioVA - optional but not normally needed if using BioCF (coral food)
Coral Foods:
Zeovit - Pohl’s Coral Vitalizer (liquid)
PolyLabs - RF-Plus (liquid)
Prodibio - None (part of other product)
Open Seas - BioCF (dry) highly versatile coral food rich in vitamins & amino acids
con't next message
Media:
Zeolites (Zeovit & Ultralith) for the most part are used to remove ammonium from the water. The idea is to remove the ammonia so it doesn't get a chance to break down into nitrites and then nitrates.
PolyLabs & Prodibio don't use any type of media to remove anything and concentrate more on creating high levels of bacteria in the tank (using your live rock & sand bed) to remove the ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. These 2 systems are much more finicky with DSB and systems with no sand beds. They basically react differently in each system since there isn't a "central media".
Open Seas uses media in 2 different ways. One is mixture of proprietary organic & protein scavenging resins mixed with selective ion exchange resins. BioUP removes small molecules that protein skimmers miss as well as larger waste molecules that complement the protein skimmer. The media is regeneratable for about 2 years and changes color as it gets used up (time to recharge). The second media (BioMedia) is a mixture of many different synthetic medias and it's purpose is to create a rich biological home for aerobic & anaerobic bacteria to thrive and do their jobs. Each liter of media works as good as 100 pounds of high quality live rock from a bacteria housing standpoint. It doesn't need replacing on an ongoing basis as zeolites do. So Open Seas works in two different ways, one to remove the waste before it gets a chance to break down and the other to create a powerful biological bacteria home to break down what ever waste doesn't get removed by BioUP and your protein skimmer.
Bacteria & Food Supply:
This is the heart and soul of most LNS. The way many of the LNS work is by feeding a carbon source to the tank in amounts that cause bacteria to multiply quickly using up the nitrogenous waste and phosphates. The bacteria are then consumed by the corals (min amounts) as a food source but mostly removed by protein skimming (why they require heavy duty skimming). The process of feeding the bacteria the "external" carbon sources does cause some bacteria to populate quickly while others diminish (survival of the fittest). The bacteria repopulation is required in order to reestablish the needed bacterias to the tank in proper proportions.
Open Seas is slightly different in this regard. While some of the functionality is the same as mentioned above OS doesn't rely on this mechanism as much as the other LNS do especially after the BioMedia is fully established. OS relies more on a natural biofiltration mechanism. The bacterial food is actually worked down to the point where it's not needed in OS unless there is extremely high bio-loads or nitrates & phosphates start to show up when testing. It's viewed more as a band-aid (that does work well). As the use of the bacteria populations and food is reduced so is the need for bacteria replacement. Even from the beginning the use of new bacteria supplementation is played down and is tied directly to the gallonage of your water changes.
Amino Acids, Vitamins & Coral Foods:
Most systems include a type of Amino Acid supplement. Aminos and Vitamins are very important to the corals especially when your are running low inorganic levels. Typically tank water is high in these values but as you "strip" the water of the inorganics you remove them. Without the aminos many corals tend to lighten up and you get what many people refer to as "pastel colors". People then dose aminos to darken up the corals.
Zeolite based systems tend to adsorb the aminos from the water faster then other systems and so does the use of carbon filtering to a point. This makes it harder to keep amino acids in the water without feeding very heavy or using a supplement.
Frankly speaking I've found with a different type of media and the right choice of foods fed to your corals the need to supplement aminos is null. They get all they need right from the food itself. This removes one of the tricky hurdles with many LNS as there isn't the need to juggle this supplement.
You can either dose a amino acid product directly to the tank to choose coral foods that are already rich in the needed amino acids and foods. Each system does this differently and of course costs fall in line with the method used.
Other Requirements:
Prodibio - IODI - Iodine supplement (1 ampule per 400 litres every two weeks)
Prodibio - STRONTI - Strontium (1 capsule per 400 litres every week)
Open Seas - "Perfect Salt" - not strictly required but makes life a lot easier as it's perfectly balanced to needed water parameters and saves you from dosing all kinds of trace elements.
Prodibio uses ampules that are one time use (most of them). This is fine if your system falls in line with the liter requirements but causes you to waste product if your system is smaller then the required suppliment.
Zeovit, Prodibio & Ultralith require the use of carbon & very strong skimming (key part of these systems). Open Seas doesn't use carbon (can be used but not needed) as it's replaced with BioUP which is more selective in what it removes and changes color as it's being used up (regeneratable). Strong skimming is also less important with Open Seas because of BioUP and because there is less focus on removing the bacteria matter. You can actually run OS in nano tanks with a skimmer which is "dangerous" with other LNS since they need the skimmer to remove the bacteria populations.
Things to Watch Out For:
Ozone & UV are not really compatible with Zeovit, Prodibio or Ultralith while it's embraced by Open Seas since the system works differently then other LNS.
Options:
Open Seas - BioVA (Vitamins & Amino Acids) but honestly not needed - mainly available for the purest who wants a liquid vitamin and amino acid supplement. Also have full line of trace elements available but not really needed either if a good salt is used.
Zeovit - K-Balance (Potassium Supplement), Potassium iodide / fluoride concentrate, Iron, ZEOspur (Macro element solution), ZEOspur2 (Trace element solution), Pocci-Stylo-Glow, Reefer's Salt
Since all the LNS really are about WATER QUALITY it's no surprise that you have to be extremely careful and watch multiple things like potassium, iron, iodine, magnesium, strontium as well as the two big ones calcium & alkalinity. Speaking of alkalinity, with the exception of BLU Coral (not really a LNS) they all call for Alk range of 7 to 8 dKH or right in that range without going higher or bouncing around (very important).
Salt mixes like IO/RC, Kent, Coral Life, Red Sea Pro, Oceanic, Crystal Sea (only mentioned a few popular ones) are difficult to use because they require a lot of tinkering with them to adjust the levels correctly. Most are FAR low in potassium which causes grief in a LNS. Most are also high in alkalinity which is a NO NO for LNS use. Of the commonly available salt mixes Tropic Marin is usually considered the best overall and needs the least amount of adjustments for use. Each LNS handles this differently.
Zeovit has the most robust set of supplements (costly too) to take care of this need. It really is needed as most salt mixes are really poor with some ion balances. Some of the best names out there are the worst! Not to bad for normal reefing but terrible for LNS use. Ideally, with the use of a good salt mix the need to use a lot of supplements is mute. That's the approach Open Seas uses. A 5% weekly water change (not higher, not lower) is all that's needed to remove DOCs and add the needed elements back in the tank with no additional supplementation needed (except for calcium and alkalinity of course).
The BLU CORAL Method
This is an Italian method of running a reef. In a nut shell it's a combination of using home made foods and keeping specific water parameters.
You run your parameters on the high side:
Alkalinity: 10dKH+ (ideally 14-16 dKH)
Calcium: 500ppm+
Magnesium 1500
The homemade food recipe is call Pappone and it's a seafood blended and laced with HGH. HGH is a steroid the Italians use but it is not obtainable legally here in the US. The Pappone recipe also uses sugar as part of it's recipe. The sugar is a one simple source of carbon that feed the bacteria. In a small sense it's used in the same manner as the bacteria foods above. However, the real intention is to combat the high levels of phosphates that are going to be present in the recipe. The recipe is actually pretty good and is very similar to Eric Borneman's only it contains sugar and HGH (if you can get it). HGH is said to not be to important by the Americans (cause we can't get it) but the Italians say it's just not the same without it and consider it a "requirement". It's expensive and the Italians would use it if they didn't feel it was needed.
Trying to keep calcium, alkalinity and magnesium all at high levels is very tough to do and not many people can actually do it as they get precipitation.
I tried to give a brief overview of how each product is used and for what purpose it is used for in each system. Hopefully I wasn't to biased.
If anyone has questions about any of the systems, feel free to ask as I've got a pretty decent hands on experience with each and everyone of them exluding the use of HGH in the BLU CORAL method.
Carlo
Zeolites (Zeovit & Ultralith) for the most part are used to remove ammonium from the water. The idea is to remove the ammonia so it doesn't get a chance to break down into nitrites and then nitrates.
PolyLabs & Prodibio don't use any type of media to remove anything and concentrate more on creating high levels of bacteria in the tank (using your live rock & sand bed) to remove the ammonia, nitrites & nitrates. These 2 systems are much more finicky with DSB and systems with no sand beds. They basically react differently in each system since there isn't a "central media".
Open Seas uses media in 2 different ways. One is mixture of proprietary organic & protein scavenging resins mixed with selective ion exchange resins. BioUP removes small molecules that protein skimmers miss as well as larger waste molecules that complement the protein skimmer. The media is regeneratable for about 2 years and changes color as it gets used up (time to recharge). The second media (BioMedia) is a mixture of many different synthetic medias and it's purpose is to create a rich biological home for aerobic & anaerobic bacteria to thrive and do their jobs. Each liter of media works as good as 100 pounds of high quality live rock from a bacteria housing standpoint. It doesn't need replacing on an ongoing basis as zeolites do. So Open Seas works in two different ways, one to remove the waste before it gets a chance to break down and the other to create a powerful biological bacteria home to break down what ever waste doesn't get removed by BioUP and your protein skimmer.
Bacteria & Food Supply:
This is the heart and soul of most LNS. The way many of the LNS work is by feeding a carbon source to the tank in amounts that cause bacteria to multiply quickly using up the nitrogenous waste and phosphates. The bacteria are then consumed by the corals (min amounts) as a food source but mostly removed by protein skimming (why they require heavy duty skimming). The process of feeding the bacteria the "external" carbon sources does cause some bacteria to populate quickly while others diminish (survival of the fittest). The bacteria repopulation is required in order to reestablish the needed bacterias to the tank in proper proportions.
Open Seas is slightly different in this regard. While some of the functionality is the same as mentioned above OS doesn't rely on this mechanism as much as the other LNS do especially after the BioMedia is fully established. OS relies more on a natural biofiltration mechanism. The bacterial food is actually worked down to the point where it's not needed in OS unless there is extremely high bio-loads or nitrates & phosphates start to show up when testing. It's viewed more as a band-aid (that does work well). As the use of the bacteria populations and food is reduced so is the need for bacteria replacement. Even from the beginning the use of new bacteria supplementation is played down and is tied directly to the gallonage of your water changes.
Amino Acids, Vitamins & Coral Foods:
Most systems include a type of Amino Acid supplement. Aminos and Vitamins are very important to the corals especially when your are running low inorganic levels. Typically tank water is high in these values but as you "strip" the water of the inorganics you remove them. Without the aminos many corals tend to lighten up and you get what many people refer to as "pastel colors". People then dose aminos to darken up the corals.
Zeolite based systems tend to adsorb the aminos from the water faster then other systems and so does the use of carbon filtering to a point. This makes it harder to keep amino acids in the water without feeding very heavy or using a supplement.
Frankly speaking I've found with a different type of media and the right choice of foods fed to your corals the need to supplement aminos is null. They get all they need right from the food itself. This removes one of the tricky hurdles with many LNS as there isn't the need to juggle this supplement.
You can either dose a amino acid product directly to the tank to choose coral foods that are already rich in the needed amino acids and foods. Each system does this differently and of course costs fall in line with the method used.
Other Requirements:
Prodibio - IODI - Iodine supplement (1 ampule per 400 litres every two weeks)
Prodibio - STRONTI - Strontium (1 capsule per 400 litres every week)
Open Seas - "Perfect Salt" - not strictly required but makes life a lot easier as it's perfectly balanced to needed water parameters and saves you from dosing all kinds of trace elements.
Prodibio uses ampules that are one time use (most of them). This is fine if your system falls in line with the liter requirements but causes you to waste product if your system is smaller then the required suppliment.
Zeovit, Prodibio & Ultralith require the use of carbon & very strong skimming (key part of these systems). Open Seas doesn't use carbon (can be used but not needed) as it's replaced with BioUP which is more selective in what it removes and changes color as it's being used up (regeneratable). Strong skimming is also less important with Open Seas because of BioUP and because there is less focus on removing the bacteria matter. You can actually run OS in nano tanks with a skimmer which is "dangerous" with other LNS since they need the skimmer to remove the bacteria populations.
Things to Watch Out For:
Ozone & UV are not really compatible with Zeovit, Prodibio or Ultralith while it's embraced by Open Seas since the system works differently then other LNS.
Options:
Open Seas - BioVA (Vitamins & Amino Acids) but honestly not needed - mainly available for the purest who wants a liquid vitamin and amino acid supplement. Also have full line of trace elements available but not really needed either if a good salt is used.
Zeovit - K-Balance (Potassium Supplement), Potassium iodide / fluoride concentrate, Iron, ZEOspur (Macro element solution), ZEOspur2 (Trace element solution), Pocci-Stylo-Glow, Reefer's Salt
Since all the LNS really are about WATER QUALITY it's no surprise that you have to be extremely careful and watch multiple things like potassium, iron, iodine, magnesium, strontium as well as the two big ones calcium & alkalinity. Speaking of alkalinity, with the exception of BLU Coral (not really a LNS) they all call for Alk range of 7 to 8 dKH or right in that range without going higher or bouncing around (very important).
Salt mixes like IO/RC, Kent, Coral Life, Red Sea Pro, Oceanic, Crystal Sea (only mentioned a few popular ones) are difficult to use because they require a lot of tinkering with them to adjust the levels correctly. Most are FAR low in potassium which causes grief in a LNS. Most are also high in alkalinity which is a NO NO for LNS use. Of the commonly available salt mixes Tropic Marin is usually considered the best overall and needs the least amount of adjustments for use. Each LNS handles this differently.
Zeovit has the most robust set of supplements (costly too) to take care of this need. It really is needed as most salt mixes are really poor with some ion balances. Some of the best names out there are the worst! Not to bad for normal reefing but terrible for LNS use. Ideally, with the use of a good salt mix the need to use a lot of supplements is mute. That's the approach Open Seas uses. A 5% weekly water change (not higher, not lower) is all that's needed to remove DOCs and add the needed elements back in the tank with no additional supplementation needed (except for calcium and alkalinity of course).
The BLU CORAL Method
This is an Italian method of running a reef. In a nut shell it's a combination of using home made foods and keeping specific water parameters.
You run your parameters on the high side:
Alkalinity: 10dKH+ (ideally 14-16 dKH)
Calcium: 500ppm+
Magnesium 1500
The homemade food recipe is call Pappone and it's a seafood blended and laced with HGH. HGH is a steroid the Italians use but it is not obtainable legally here in the US. The Pappone recipe also uses sugar as part of it's recipe. The sugar is a one simple source of carbon that feed the bacteria. In a small sense it's used in the same manner as the bacteria foods above. However, the real intention is to combat the high levels of phosphates that are going to be present in the recipe. The recipe is actually pretty good and is very similar to Eric Borneman's only it contains sugar and HGH (if you can get it). HGH is said to not be to important by the Americans (cause we can't get it) but the Italians say it's just not the same without it and consider it a "requirement". It's expensive and the Italians would use it if they didn't feel it was needed.
Trying to keep calcium, alkalinity and magnesium all at high levels is very tough to do and not many people can actually do it as they get precipitation.
I tried to give a brief overview of how each product is used and for what purpose it is used for in each system. Hopefully I wasn't to biased.
If anyone has questions about any of the systems, feel free to ask as I've got a pretty decent hands on experience with each and everyone of them exluding the use of HGH in the BLU CORAL method.
Carlo
Here's a good thread on it at ReefCentral also: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1086412&highlight=blu+coral
Carlo
Carlo