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Plumbing plan

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
My plumbing has developed a slow leak at the drain bulkhead. Seems to be coming through the threads as opposed to around the flange nut. I'm not sure that means anything but I was able to slow it from 2 drips a minute to 1 drip every 3 minutes or so with some plumbers putty on/around the threads. My setup is as follows:
Standard AGA 90 reef ready overflow with a 1" drain and a 3/4" return. Currently I have "slip" bulkheads to rigid PVC. Drain is split 70-75% to my filter sock/skimmer and the rest to my refugium. My sump has the return in the middle so I'm stuck with splitting the drain. Here's a shot although it's hard to see what's going on with the pipes

893882f9.jpg


I may be able to loosen and re-tighten the existing 1" but I have to clean the overflow & prepare for the worst which means draining and removing the sump. PITA. Once I do that I'd like to consider redesigning the set up b/c as was already suggested this leak likely started b/c of torque on the pipes. Should be noted that the return is dry but the return and drain tie together so common vibration problems could be transferred to the drain side. If I re-do I won't be doing this again.

That's the set-up. Anyone have suggestions of what they did that's different. I've already thought I'd go with isolated drain and return. I considered using flex for the return to cut down turbulence and eliminate some of my micro bubbles. Has anyone used "threaded" bulkheads instead of "slip"? (threaded, not "barbed"). This would save gluing in the PVC and having to scrap the bulkheads with each problem. I'd also like to be able to close the drain when I'm doing WCs or switching my filter sock. Right now I have ball valve on both the return and the drain plus I have valves on the drain after the split to meter the flow to the fuge vs the skimmer. Is there any way to achieve this w/o rigid PVC?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. I already made the mistake of trying to do this panicked in the middle of the night. Way too stressful. This is a drip, not an emergency. It's not likely going away w/o repair but I can do it in an organized way. I much prefer working with a plan to operating in crisis mode :)
 

TanksNStuff

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Not sure about re-designing your whole plumbing plan... but here's a couple suggestions to help correct the current one, or incorporate on a re-do.

1. Pipe straps like these can help alleviate some of the torque on the pipes, which will help with stress on the bulkhead. There are different types available, so get whichever will be easier to install for you.

2. Flex pipe instead of rigid is a better option whenever possible. Especially the first run off of the bulkhead. Since there is some play in it, there's less stress on the bulkhead with this too. Also, it usually gives a much smoother angle on the bends, which is better for flow.

I'd do whatever it takes to correct the leak and alleviate stress on the bulkhead(s) ASAP.
 

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
Thanks George - question - when you say "flex" pipe - what do you mean? What comes to mind for me is the stuff that's sold by the foot - eg. clear tube for the drain would have a inside-diameter of 1" (OD might be 1.25" - not sure without looking at HD or Lowes) - does that mean using barbed bulkheads? or threaded with an insert leading to a piece or pipe to attach the hose to? Either way, hose clamps? I don't trust the "stainless" and can't find nylon hose clamps - I could use wire-ties... With the flex for the drain, any thoughts on how to you transition to rigid for shut-offs? I could use flex and then rig up a mounting plate for the drain transition - I guess that would dissipate the stress away from the bulkhead. I guess then I would just leave the return all flex up to a barbed bulkhead. I wish I wasn't so OCD - the flex is going to make me nervous unless I feel like I have it well controlled.
 

malulu

NJRC Member
Flexi PVC pipe - looks like this...

for pluming related parts... Lowes always have better options....

images
 

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
Flexi PVC pipe - looks like this...

for pluming related parts... Lowes always have better options....

images
Thanks. HD's closer to work so I always try there first- ill drive the extra mile to Lowes. Can it be treated like rigid PVC? Primed and glued? How flexible is it?
 

redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Flex PVC can be handled just like rigid PVC......just go a little light with the cleaner.

As far a pipe straps suggested by George above, very good idea, but instead of the metal ones, use the plastic (PVC) ones that are used for conduit.


EDIT TO ADD: I know some HD's and Lowe's carry flex PVC....my local ones do not. You can always go to a plumbing supply house....and with you down south, Barton Supply.
 

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
Is the flexi PVC preferred over clear vinyl? Does it have enough give? Should I glue directly into a slip bulkhead?my plan is to try to slightly tighten and see if that stops the leak. If not I will drain and clean the overflow (hopefully w/o draining and pulling the sump). If either stops the leak I will then rig a brace to hold hangers and alleviate the stress on the bulkhead. If I can't stop it Then I guess I'm stuck with going to plan C which will be a re-do. I think that's most likely so I need to have everything on hand when I start. Don't want to move the sump twice if I can avoid it.
 

TanksNStuff

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Sorry, I didn't respond right away. I am at work, so I pop in when I get a second. :eek:

I'd stay away from clear plastic tubing as much as possible. Any light that gets in there will cause algae to grow, buildup inside the tube and eventually constrict the flow.

If you can find black tubing, that would work fine.

These plastic clamps are ideal because they aren't permanent and won't rust.

I agree with Paul about the plastic supports. That's kind of what I meant by "they have different kinds". HD or Lowes should have plenty of different choices that will fit your needs.
 

howze01

NJRC Member
Just an FYI, I got the plastic clamps that George posted above and they didn't work with my flex PVC. The tube was too rigid for me to be able to clamp it. I had to get the metal kind that you tighten with a screwdriver. If they get wet though, they will rust up pretty quick.
 

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
Just an FYI, I got the plastic clamps that George posted above and they didn't work with my flex PVC. The tube was too rigid for me to be able to clamp it. I had to get the metal kind that you tighten with a screwdriver. If they get wet though, they will rust up pretty quick.
I guess it's safe to assume that PVC, flex or rigid needs solvent/cement and the clamps are for vinyl
 

redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Flex PVC is made to be glued. Any clamp will not work. It is sized to fit into standard PVC fittings with cleaner and glue.


If you want to use clamps, use tubing!
 

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
It was suggested (on RC) that I do a complete redesign. Suggestion was to use an uninterrupted drain - i.e. no shut off and no tee to the fuge, etc. fuge to be supplied off the return. Theory is that all tank water passes the skimmer. His theory, enough nutrients get passed the skimmer and will feed the fuge. Also said that as long as the return has no air leak, shouldnt add micro bubbles. Interesting b/c it is FAR simpler than my current setup. Of course the rub, the leak stopped. I'm sure it's a stiff wind gust away from starting again so Im not pretending the problem's fixed but I'm going to take my time and come up with a solid plan.
 

TanksNStuff

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Yep, the clamps I suggested were meant to be for the black tubing I suggested. Flex PVC is too rigid to be clamped.

Dave, I'm in agreement with the plan to have a single, uninterrupted drain to the skimmer section. The only reason I'd say TEEing off the drain to feed a fuge would be if it was a separate tank altogether.
 

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
Unfortunately I can't rearrange my sump layout now so I will need to feed the fuge somehow. I could just use a small pump or I could feed off my return but I'm not sure the Mag 9.5 I use is strong enough for that and I now have a second / backup 9.5 do I'm kind of married to 9.5

And of course the leak having fully stopped is messing with my head. "Don't fix what ain't broken" - I have too much time to think now.
 

fatoldsun

NJRC Member
It was a very slow leak - I bumped the rigid PVC which I assume tweaked/torqued it enough that some sand was able to work under the gasket. I added some plumbers putty around the the bulkhead's flange nut threads and that slowed it to 1 drip every 2-3 minutes. It has since stopped so the putty was helping slow it but wasn't stopping it. I'm not foolish enough to believe it isn't problematic but it's not a crisis and I hope I can take my time deciding what I'll do nectime b/c doing this 3 times is twice too many...
 
Suporting your plumbing is huge in minimizing leaks.

I havnt really looked close enough to say I'd change any thing interms of the design. But even if you cange nothing, support the weight of the filled pipe! Pipe with water is heavy!!!!
 
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