Re-Charging a Cati-Ani unit...

[malulu]

(1)
Happy New Year to all...

(2)
It is the time for me to recharging my Cati-Ani unit again, if anyone is interested, please welcome to stop by. This time, i will take pics for the whole process and post it out here somewhere, so others can be refer to it later. I have took pics before on this process, but over the time, i sort of changed the ways i do thing to simplified the tasks (not necessary shorten the time), so need new pics to post.

Time: Jan 10th (1pm - 4pm)
Location: Green Brook, NJ 08812 (3 miles north of RedSand, and 3 miles west of OceanGallaryII)

Contact info: Please PM me for address, and my mobile #

thx

 

[rkaiser]

I'll do what I can to get there David, Thanks!

 

[Gonzapa]

(1)
Happy New Year to all...

(2)
It is the time for me to recharging my Cati-Ani unit again, if anyone is interested, please welcome to stop by. This time, i will take pics for the whole process and post it out here somewhere, so others can be refer to it later. I have took pics before on this process, but over the time, i sort of changed the ways i do thing to simplified the tasks (not necessary shorten the time), so need new pics to post.

Time: Jan 10th (1pm - 4pm)
Location: Green Brook, NJ 08812 (3 miles north of RedSand, and 3 miles west of OceanGallaryII)

Contact info: Please PM me for address, and my mobile #

thx

I am going to try to make it there

 

[malulu]

Reposting from Google Cache as of October 11, 2010, 02:20:48 PM

After nine-Months... I finally have time to post this... Sorry for the delay!
:-[

First of all, thanks again for Ron (rkaiser)'s help to take pics on the steps...

Here is some of the charging instructions that I got off the web:

(1) a PDF from Aqua Technic
http://www.allensaquariums.com/AquaTechnic%20Kati%20Ani%20Instructions.pdf

(2) a posting from Steven Pro, to prevent the possible broken links (I copied those scanned images and upload them under my own location)
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Topic70811-14-5.aspx

 

[malulu]

Here are the Steps:

This is the the Unit comparison: Too bad that the photo are taken under different lighting conditions - indoor/outdoor/time-of-date, hence can not be used as a TRUE color comparison).

From LEFT to Right:

1. Unit need to recharge.
2. After the Chemical recharge step(s).
3. After the Final recharge process.
4. After the first 50gal usage (noticed by the top portion of color changed)

 

[malulu]

Rinsing the Unit...
- once the unit being used up (by checking the TDS output > 10)
- i would take them out and rinse them with tap water.

Necessary Protective Gears!!

I dress up with thick with long sleeve!!

The Ani unit looks dried after used

Hookup hose to the outlet side

Run water inside, it came out from the inlet side

Put on a cap, shake them lose

Do the same with the Kati unit

Result

 

[malulu]

The REAL Charging Fun Begin!
Note:
- The instructions show to recharge the Kati unit first
- Then use that water from a GOOD Kati to recharge the Ani unit
- This mean you can't charge your Ani at all until the Kati was done! 1+ hour will be wasted!!
- I got this TRICK from Bruce: Store some extra Kati water first! before it used up!
- Therefore, I can now charging them BOTH at the same time (significantly reduced the Total ReCharge time by half!!)
- Thanks again to Bruce for this great time saver!

The Recipe!

Measuring the NaOH

For the Unit #5, I need 400 gram

Pouring in with the mix (Kati water - see note on top) and slowly stir them with a PVC pipe

This need to set it up high for the gravity feed to work

the Fun part - pour some ACID!

Mix it with 6 parts of regular TAP water

Rinse the container thoroughly before putting it aside for storage

Hookup the hose from the bucket to the unit

Stir it with a PVC pipe

Watch out for this type of VALVE!! it LEAKS!! and SPILL!!
not recommended!! but i can't find a better substitution parts yet!![/b]

Look at the dripping on the floor!! (this is a 6:1 ACID:WATER mix)

Hookup the KATI outlet into a waste collection bucket

Same with the ANI unit

Meassure the output dripping flow (We forgot to took pics of it, so, redoing this with a fresh TAP water for taking pics purpose)

Set a timer, and started to fill a measuring cup

Stop when time is UP... adjust the flow acordingly to your needed

Hopefully they will be Neutralized? Bruce said the Engineer said the water is Neutral and can be drink... (definitely not me!)

Let it run for 45+ mins and sit for 15+ mins

Covered it up, no one get near it!!

...

About 1+ hour later

 

[malulu]

Flushing steps...

Run TAP water through the unit - Flush the Kati unit with TAP water according to your units size

Then connect them to the normal operation setup:
- TAP water to Kati-inlet
- Kati-outlet to Ani-inlet
- Ani-outlet to waste-bucket

Measure the Ani-outlet with a TDS meter

It started from 1999+ down to 156, then to 94

Down to 22

Then to 10-ish, I then stop the Flush (the whole flush took about 15+ mins)

 

[malulu]

Finalized
Hooking it back

At this time, it read as INPUT / OUTPUT

This is what the color looks like as of now

After 10 mins of usage

Pic taken in the morning - After 50g of water usage

TDS reading

pH input from TAP water source

pH output from Kati-Ani

 

[malulu]

Overall, the recharge process may took about 2.5 hours if you time it right

For me, i just set up the recharge and go to do something else, then come back 1.5+ hours later to Flush the units, so total of about 3 hours would be enough.

it is not that difficult a task, just the nasty chemical stuffs get me worried about my kids to get near to it

If anyone of you need help with the recharge, please let me know, or want to see it in person, i will info you when i do my next recharge (may be in December).

thx

 

[malulu]

From rkaiser Reply on: October 11, 2010, 04:46:36 PM

Very helpful and much appreciated!!!

From Dave Reply on: October 11, 2010, 05:30:29 PM

Thanks David this is great. I am going to have to do mine soon. I guess I have to double everything on the plan for the #10 unit. Should be fun figuring out how to run the buckets. I am considering going over to tractor supply and getting some 10 gal. buckets, but looks like all they have a galvanized steel.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/home-improvement/hardware/cleaning-equipment-accessories/brooms-dust-pans/behrens-10-gal-galvanized-sheet-steel-garbage-pail-2220185

The search continues.

From Malulu Reply on: October 11, 2010, 10:43:53 PM

Yeah Right - a steel PLUS Acid!! going to be fun!

Seriously, May be we can try it with the same 5 Gals bucket with 3:1 (ACID : WATER), do you think it would work? I would think so...

 

[malulu]

Going to do a recharge very soon around? Any one want to come and see?

it would be either July 2nd, 2011 or next week July 9th, 2011. (depends on my order of NaOH came in this week or not.)

 

[TanksNStuff]

Wow, great documentation of your re-charge process David! Looks like a lot of work, are you sure it's worth it? ;D

 

[malulu]

...
are you sure it's worth it? ;D

having that second thought - EVERY DAY!
:

 

[malulu]

Few member asked me, it this worth it??

in my own opinion:

(1) If i ever want to do it again?
- Probably not.
- I really like the good old days, just swap the filter and be done with it.

(2) I was thinking to save water (also save $)... but how much can I really save?
- right now, my Town water in-let TDS is ~200. I can only last ~350 gals per charge.
- recharging material is about $10 per charge
- every recharge it will used(wasted) about 25 gals of water.
- so my RO/DI water premium cost is: 350g / $10 ==> 35g per dollar
- i just did a quick google search, it said average about 2 cents per gallon
- since i do not have waste, i saved 350 g x 3 ==> 1000g (about $20!!)
- so, compared to RO/DI, my 350g water cost is $7 PLUS $10 recharge MINUS the $20 supposed to be wasted, i saved $3.
- need 350g so called "pure-water" + 25g watsed, paid $17.

(3) so, if someone can help to do the math on a regular RO/DI, it will be great help to compare the cost.
- how much gals of water can you produce with a regular RO/DI unit before replacing filter?
- how much is the filter cost?

thx

 

[TanksNStuff]

I guess that too would depend on the in-let TDS for whoever is testing the RO/DI.

I haven't kept track of gallons made nor gallons wasted with my RO/DI, but I know I've only changed the carbon and sediment filters on mine and I've had it over a year. The DI resin is the "color changing" type and it still is clean, so even though I bought the replacement resin, I didn't change it yet. My dual meter says around 5 TDS after my RO filters and 0 TDS after DI cartridge, so I'm pretty sure it's still working as intended.

As far as costs, the two filters I did replace cost:

Sediment Filter - $2.40
Carbon Block - $8.80
DI Resin - $9.60

Total - $11.20 without the resin, $20.20 if I replaced the resin too.

Of course you would have to add in the cost of all the water I wasted with the RO/DI, but I just bought a 75GPD upgrade (extra RO membrane) that has cut my waste water down tremendously. I get almost 50/50 waste to filtered water with this upgrade and I used to be more around 75/25 waste/filtered.

I would think that in terms of overall savings... Kati Ani would probably more economical than RO/DI considering there is no waste water. But my question regarding it being "worth it" was more directed at recharging it as opposed to just buying new media. Is that stuff that expensive?

 

[malulu]

I have the Cati-Ani Unit #5, it don't matter in size, the ONLY difference is how OFTEN do i need to recharge.

you can not just BUY the Kati-Ani media, the most expensive $ in on that media, the rest is just a empty case.

a Unit 5 cost around $700 (i don't remember exact $), at that time i paid the full retail price, as Bruce said he will refund me the different when the group buy occurred.... but no one really into the group buy, so i end up paid in full without any discount.

the recharging need:
(1) Sodium Hydroxide (NaOH) about $2.5 per pound (i need it 1.1 pound per charge)
(2) Muriatic Acid about $7.25 per gallon (i need 0.7 gal per charge).

the process to recharge is the deal breaker! too much trouble. at that time, i was expected to have Bruce to do the recharge for some fee, but he lives too far away from him (2+ hours drive one-way).

bottom line:
- yes, the Kati-Ani did save $... but how much? is it worth the trouble?
- also the unit cost about than double compared to regular RO/DI unit.
- the more i see the details, i would recommend to stay with RO/DI. ( If you are not convinced, do you want to buy the Kati-Ani off me? we can get to a agree-able middle ground price. ;D )

thx