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Seachem Prime - What is it really doing?

D

Dave

Frankly, I am not sure what exactly it is doing/supposed to be doing.

If this product did all that it was advertised to do, why wouldn't people just regularly dose their tank with it to take care of any nitrate problems they may have and forget about all of the skimming, filtering, etc...

I guess I am just not clear on the product, and as a result I am skeptical/figure their must be a downside.
 
B

Boomer

Dave, the product works fine as far as a dechlor or dechloram. It is well know that certain chemical based substances can take chlorine or chloramine and break them down and or covert then to a non-toxic form. As far as the NO2 and NO3 I find that as so much gibberish as none of them that make this claim have shown me how it does so. If one, with any of these kinds of product used, measure the NO3 or NO2 before and after the application of the Prime or other similar products, one still gets the same NO3 or NO3 levels. So, we are suppose to trust "YOU" that they are now non-toxic. And these are not toxic, so to speak, in seawater to begin with.

What SeaChem has down here is re-invent Dr. John Khuns product, ClorAm-X ( HOCH2SO3Na,sodium hydroxymethanesulfonate), which he is quite famous for. Dr. Leo Moren (Deceased) from Seachem just took at another route, so to speak, to accomplish the same, with out infringing on patient rights of a chemical to achieve a similar end product. In any of these reactions the chlorine is reduced/converted to chloride. The chloramine is broken up into amine and chlorine and the chlorine is then converted/reduce to chloride. The amine, a fancy name of a kind" of ammonia, so to speak or actual ammonia combines with a sulfonate based chemical in the product, producing a non-toxic ammonia based sulfonate which goes through normal biological break down. Sachem's other route is to use complexed hydrosulfite salts, which does about the same. There have been more than one company that have reinvented Johns product.

I'm sure you have heard of common dechlor, Sodium thiosulfate. Take note it is also "Sulfur" based. So, John reinvented dechlor only took it a step further to take care of chloramines. If one is trying to remove chloramines with a std dosage of dechlor, one needs to double does it so to speak. The first dosage breaks apart the chloramine molecule, to "ammonia + chlorine". The second dosage converts the chlorine into chloride but the ammonia remains behind. One can achieve the same results using GAC, for either chlorine or chloramine. They react with the carbon surface, which get oxidized, where the now chlorine is converted/reduced to chloride but again the ammonia is left behind. In FW you use the GAC and a zeolite (FW ammonia remover) and now both are gone. However, here there is no production of any "sulfur" based end products. But such zeolites do zippo for ammonia removal in salt water, as there are to many ions in seawater to interfere with the zeolite to bring about any ammonia removal, as zeolites are ion-exchangers, just like your DI unit. Where the ammonia kicks out a sodium ion in the zeolite and gets replaced with ammonia.

In short, for ClorAm-X

OCl- (Chlorine) + NH3 (Ammonia)[ or chloramine ] + HOCH2SO3Na(ClorAM-X) → H2NCH2SO4Na(sodium ammonia sulfonate) + Cl-(chloride) + H20
 
B

Boomer

Meaning Dave, the NO2 and NO3 is a claim based on false pretense, as they themselves don't' know. They say it bring about detoxification. Based on what tests and how do they know it brings about detoxification. Meaning, what evidence is there from tests, even if they do not know how the mechanism works, that show that it detox's them ?

I think they are in the same boat as Amquel is with their claim on their new Amquel plus. Std Amquel is John's ClorAm-X, relicensed to a new name via permission of John. When Kordon made their claim that it does the same, John ran ICP tests to see if this was true. He found out that the changed product, with another additive, only masked the NO3 and NO2 kit readings. However, the ICP showed the NO3 and NO2 where still there.
 
D

duijver

Interesting thread that I will be following to see the results.

I just picked up Prime at the last PA GP in hopes of using it during QT to minimize water changes. I had seen others recommending Amquel (plus?) for doing this task, but SeaPrime seemed to do the same. I considered adding it to my DT to remove some really low readings, but I decided against it since it didn't seem worth the risk.

I do know that Dr. Jim recommends using one of these products during QT so he may have some data to support it's success.
 
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