Anyone have a Moorish Idol?

[Carlo]

I've never had one but have been drawn to them lately.

Anyone here have one?

If so how does it do in your reef? Does it pick at your LPS or mostly just eat the coralline algae and sponges (if you have any)?

How does it get along with your other fish? Any problems with Angel, Butterfly or Tangs?

Any problem with it picking at other inverts?

All the things I just asked are possible things it might do according to many sources. As with many fish it's sometimes better to ask those who keep them or have kept them, then rely on books where the author has never personally had one.

I'm out of "spare" tanks so I'm not going to do a separate tank just for it. I figured if anyone else has had luck with it in a reef tank I might be inclined to give it a try.

Any insight would be appreciated,
Carlo

 

[kathainbowen]

Tropiquarium had a couple last week.

I'm going to be honest. I've known a bunch of people to try, and only very few to have any luck, let alone any long term success. The worst part is that all the people I've known to be able to keep them for a month or more always end up bragging about their success and have the moorish idol promptly die shortly thereafter. It just seems to be one of those Murphy's Law things that, once you think you've got a great thing going and start talking about it, that it all fall apart.

I'll see if I can get a hold of Alan in the beginning of next week to hear the good word on the few in the Tropical Diver tank to see if he's got any clues for care, but, again, to be perfectly honest, I don't advise purchasing one until there's better info out there on how to tank care of them. The few at Trop were easily over $100 a fish, and I've seen them go for higher to get a decent sized specimen in good quality like these guys. If you ask me, that's a pretty big investment to risk on a fish that has very slim chances surviving long, let alone being successfully kept in healthy, fit condition.

Than again, admittedly, I'm also the "frugal-fishkeeper."

 

[Carlo]

Yep, I know they are extremely hard to keep. So far, knock on wood, I've been lucky with a lot of hard to keep animals. But this is a particular fish where there is a lot of mixed information or vague info on them.

I'm not really to sure how much I value a LFS info on them as they normally don't have them around long enough to know the ins and outs. Now if they have one in a display or have had one for over 3 months then that's another story.

I agree, my typical way of thinking is that the jury is out of the fish until it's been in the tank for 6 month or at least 3 months. At that point you can "start to think" you are successful. Many fish can slowly starve to death and still be around 6 weeks later.

I look forward to hearing from you and Alan.

Thanks,
Carlo

 

[MadReefer]

Carlo,
Why not get a Heni. They are similar in appearance.
Mark

 

[kathainbowen]

Yep, I know they are extremely hard to keep. So far, knock on wood, I've been lucky with a lot of hard to keep animals. But this is a particular fish where there is a lot of mixed information or vague info on them.

I'm not really to sure how much I value a LFS info on them as they normally don't have them around long enough to know the ins and outs. Now if they have one in a display or have had one for over 3 months then that's another story.

Oh, I'm not saying to take an LFSs advice exactly on how to take care of them, I was just pointing it out as a price to give an idea of the range you should expect to see cost wise.




And, by the by, MAVL666's advice of the heniochus butterfly has always been my tried and true standby for the moorish idol appearance wise, but hardier, cheaper, and easier to find.

 

[MadReefer]

I've been tempted many times to get a Heni but never have. If I upgrade my tank will consider it. Do you know if it's true they do best in a group than single.

Mark

 

[reefsandrotts]

Carlo
I've have 2 of them in my reef tank,they do pick at coraline no big deal,they feed best for me with actinics only,this is also when my pinnatus feeds live brine with frozen mysis.
Mine came from absolute fish but mike from ny aquatic has them often also dr.foster and he gives a 30 warranty.

As for a Heni in the reef BIG mistake had one in a frag tank and guess what typical butterfly nature frags all gone.

HTH
JIm

 

[DaveK]

I tried a Moorish Idol once. It looked great in the store, and fed there. I put it into my 125 gal reef, and rearanged the rock work so it could easily swim behind it. The fish is very skittish.

It was eating krill and similar shrimp foods, but wouldn't touch other frozen or dry foods. It also tore into all my soft corals, especially leather corals. No doubt this did wonders for it's diet. I never saw it go after hermits or snails in the tank, but it did seem to graze on the algae.

All was going well, and I figured I was home free, and having it eat the soft corals was a small price to pay for a very rare ad unusual fish.

I lost it about 6 months later, when it choked on a shrimp, shell and all.

Well, I had solved most of the problems with keeping the one I had alive.

If I were doing it again, I'd make the following changes -

I'd use a much larger tank, something over 200 gal. I'd want the tank as long as possible.

I'd use LR piled in "islands" in the tank, so the fish could swim around and behind them. Also, large "caves" where the fish could hide. They are so #$%^* timid.

I'd add several leather corals that I'd expect the idols to eat them, and I'd keep the tank supplied with other fast growing soft corals, like xenia, and colt, just for the fish to feed on. This might require a frag tank, just for growing food for the fish. Also possible the fish would do well with feeding of pods grown in another container.

I'd want to keep a school of 3 to 5 fish.

Only small, somewhat non aggressive tankmates. I'd want a few fish that would eat anything, so hopefully they would teach the Moorish Idols what to eat.

 

[kathainbowen]

Carlo
I've have 2 of them in my reef tank,they do pick at coraline no big deal,they feed best for me with actinics only,this is also when my pinnatus feeds live brine with frozen mysis.
Mine came from absolute fish but mike from ny aquatic has them often also dr.foster and he gives a 30 warranty.

As for a Heni in the reef BIG mistake had one in a frag tank and guess what typical butterfly nature frags all gone.

HTH
JIm

Keeping the heniochus in a reef tank is like keeping most butterflies, or even the large angels in a reef tank. You need a really big tank packed with loads of hardy, fast growing corals to make it work, as well as keeping that butterfly super fat! But, even the more "reef-safe" butterflies are like the "reef-safe" angels and triggers. It's the equivalent of keeping an aquatic loaded-gun. They may continue to uphold the reputation as model citizens, or they may turn into ravenous destroyers of everything and anything coral!

I did forget about the "reef" part when commenting about Malv's suggestion of the heni, so it's definitely good someone picked up on that!




However, getting back to the ever elusive moorish idol.... can I ask a couple of questions (super curious now!!!) How big are they? How long have you had them? How big's the tank? Do you have pics? Inquiring minds (or, just me) are dying to know!!!

 

[Carlo]

I had a heniochus butterfly for close to 4 years before it had an accounter with a MaxiJet and got stuck to it. Mine would occasionally pick at something but never really caused any harm. I usually keep my fish well/over fed so I typically don't have "picking problems" out of hunger. Of course some fish will pick no matter what. I guess I've been lucky in that respect.

reefsandrotts, now we're talking! Very nice, 2 of them. I'm not worried about coralline at all. I've got so much I've got to scrape it off the glass every day. Might be nice to get a helper.

I feed frozen mysis, clams, krill, shrimp and live brine on occasion. I also feed my tanks several other frozen foods including "specific" foods for an angel and butterfly. I can add different types of food if needed without worry of ammonia/nitrate buildup.

Let me ask you this reefsandrotts. If you lost your two Idols due to an accident of some type would you add them again? Did you get a mated pair or just picked up two and gave it a shot? I was thinking about two if I do it. Do you find them to be timid like DaveK said? Any other words of wisdom?

DaveK, these would go into a 7' long tank with plenty of open space to swim as well as tons of caves, tunnels and hiding places (lots o' rock). You mentioned it was pretty timid. Would you put it on par with something like a long nose butterfly or even more timid then that? I'd consider the LNB medium timid but trying to judge based on that.

How do you think they would do with a half dozen or so tangs in the tank including a couple 8" and 10" tangs? They don't seem to bother other fish including a long nose butterfly but I'm not sure that means anything as fish can be "fickle". Curious why would you go with 3 to 5 of them? I've read both "small school" and "pair only" and "only one" recommendations. Hence me asking a lot of questions from those who have done it.

kathainbowen & DaveK, I'm not opposed to allowing the fish to graze on some of the soft corals especially leathers. I've got a couple leathers in the tank that I have to split to keep them from getting to big. Of course there are other corals mostly hard corals that I'd get upset if the fish messed with like a 6" sunset monti or my large encrusting montis. I've also got some rare zoos that I'd be especially worried about. What's the word on the Idol eating zoos?

Thanks so much for all the help,
Carlo

 

[reefsandrotts]

Ok first,
No pics. kids got ahold of my camera and tried to take tank shots for dad,well it got a saltwater bath..

My idols in mid september will be about 18 months in my 150 reef.

Carlo
Just picked up 2 (gotta be from hawaii) they sometimes go a couple days without eating prepared food so it's off to the LFS for sponge,I think the biggest problem, with these is the same with wild clowns they tend to have intestinal worms so in the begining I soaked all the food in selcon.They are also eating flake daily (I know no nutrition but lots of amino acids)

They so far have not touched any LPS or my zoos shrimp crabs or cuke.

Would I replace them if something happened YES YES YES they are probably one of the biggest reasons I stayed in the hobby,we can push our minds to the edge and have the best looking reef possable,but when you see these guys come flashing across the tank well then in my opinion it just got a whole lot better.

 

[Carlo]

Very Nice.

Thanks so much for the info,
Carlo

 

[kathainbowen]

Ok first,
No pics. kids got ahold of my camera and tried to take tank shots for dad,well it got a saltwater bath..

Aw! I feel your pain.... sort of....

See, I took my own cam to Tropiquarium to share pics with the Danny of it.... but promptly dropped it on the pavement. My camera now takes pretty all-black pictures. But I think I'd have more of a massive heart attack if my camera had gotten a saltwater bath, less for the camera and more for the tank!

 

[DaveK]

Carlo,

The tank size decour you suggest sounds ideal. I'd consider a Moorish Idol a lot more timid that a copperband butterfly. Maybe timid is the wrong word, perhaps skittish is closer. The least little thing scars them, and sends them charging off behind a rock or into a cave. They may loose this fear in time.

The reason I selected 3 - 5 was because when I have seen them in public aquariums, they seemed to school. It just seems a better way to keep them, provided you have the tank space for them.

I don't think tangs would bother the fish, but they might keep it scared enough so it wouldn't feed, but this is a tough call. They might get along great.

When I had a Moorish Idol, I didn't have any SPS corals, and the fish didn't seem to bother the LPS corals. It loved to eat the leather corals though.

I'm not sure about zoos, but I suspect the Moorish Idol has too small a mouth to eat those. When feeding on the leather corals, it would extract extended polyps, and eat the other soft tissues.

 

[Carlo]

Thanks DaveK, sounds good so far.

I understand the skittish comment.

I think I'm going to go ahead with this next week unless some reason turns up that I shouldn't. I'm moving stuff around in the basement. I'm replacing my 55 glass sump with my 150g Rubbermaid Stock tank. I'm moving a 300g Rubbermaid inside (outside right now but attached to the system) and I've added a couple more RO/DI and salt mixing cans.

It's going to be very crowded in my basement which is real small to begin with. I've got a 125 (long) presently in my basement which I'm thinking of moving upstairs into my office/tank room. At present it's only being used as a prop tank which is overkill for it. It's on a metal stand right now. So I figured if I pick up a couple of cheap pine stands I've got another couple displays 55 and 125 to add to my other displays.

My thinking was to try the Idols in my main reef but if there is a problem then move them to the 125. At that point I could add a few more and do a pretty much dedicated Moorish Idol tank if need be or select a few compatible fish for the tank. At least this way I've got a backup plan.

I need to finalize the basement but I could basically pick them up at any point and get them in QT.

What in your opinion is the ideal tank mates for them? I'd love to hear your opinion on this to reefsandrotts.

Thanks,
Carlo

 

[reefsandrotts]

Hey Carlo
Tank mates of mine include 2 small hippo tangs,helfrichi firefish small emperor (yes in my reef no problems) A school of 8 dispar anthius and my pinnatus.

The idols tend to be mid water swimmers so I kinda have a good mix for them the anthius stay up top to emperor somewhat mid-to lower and the tangs hang right on the bottom 6" of the tank,so pretty much they share the entire mid column with the bat,as most know anthius are sloppy eaters so allot gets past them to the other levels in the column.
You just need to avoid over aggressive eaters and you should be fine,but again I cannot stress how important is to make sure they are Hawaii only so If I were to buy more they would come from either ny aquatic (won't ship till eating) or dr. foster.

 

[blange3]

So Carlo, I know you know this is one of the favorite 'leave it in the ocean fish' fish, so no lectures here.

Have you checked out the Moorish Idol thread on RC lately? I haven't been there in a while but the latest success recipe seemed to be large well established reef tanks and only keeping mated pairs.

Even when they eat, they seem to waste away after a year in the experience of many. The observations of some divers reported that they are always seen in pairs and some speculated that the wasting away is related to the need to be kept in pairs.

I would post over on RC and dialogue with others who have been successful. Reefsandrotts certainly qualifies by making it to 18 months, but I would try to get a consensus of positive experiences.

I have been resisting the Moorish Idol urge for 35 years now. Imports have continued all this time and the survival rate has not improved much. If you are going to take this on, have a well thought out plan. I can see that you are working on that, and document the experience in detail so that if you are successful, we can all benefit.

 

[Carlo]

Good idea Blange3. I've read a couple smaller threads but not the larger one(s). I figured I'd check here first and get some opinions to work from. At least here at NJReefers I know the caliber of the person giving the advice and know based on the person, if it's generally good advice or not worth the time it took to read it. Sometimes that's the problem at RC as anyone who's had a fish for a month is an "expert".

Getting this wonderful feedback and info from reefsandrotts & DaveK now arms me for some heavy duty reading and allows me to separate out some of the "BS" I'm sure I'll encounter on RC. Then I'll be able to determine if I can provide the proper environment for it and be prepared. Sort of like what I did with my Stingrays.

So far things are looking good and I bet I've got 90%+ of the info I needed here. Now I can try and pick up some tips & tricks and make sure there aren't any road blocks or reasons I shouldn't attempt it.

I think I love to watch the fish more then the corals although I like both. Having a decent amount of fish as well as corals seems to look more like a reef to me. Besides the reef, I've been getting into "exotics" and unusual head-turning fish (stingrays, Rhino, etc). While not rare it's pretty unusual to see Moorish Idols in home tanks and they are truly beautiful.

Carlo

PS How come after 35 years you haven't given one a shot yet? Resistance is Futile!

 

[blange3]

PS How come after 35 years you haven't given one a shot yet? Resistance is Futile!

In the early days they were just too expensive.

Later when I had the means, I knew I didn't have the tank for them. My current 75 is the largest tank I have ever owned. When I make the jump to the 180, I'm sure I'll have to beat back the demons tempting me! :

I'll wait and see how you do. ;D

Maybe Merv will chime in here. I know he was considering them recently and changed his mind. He may have collected more of the recent data.

I agree you have to do more sifting of the data on RC. At least on NJRC you have chance to meet the folks at a meeting and see their efforts first hand.