Notices today there is some brown algae growing on my live rock. Upon research I came up with the conclusion that it is Diatom Algae. Now this is we're I'm lost, upon research I read two contradictory statements. The first being the fact that this particular form or algae feeds off of high phosphates (tested my water 2 days ago, phosphates are at a 1. I realize it should be lower I'm doing a water change Wednesday so I was told it should drop) Now, I also read that when this particular form of algae appears it generally means you are coming to the end of cycling your tank (my tank is new, makes sense) With that being said, is this "diatom algae" a form of naturally lowering the phosphates levels? (nitrates, ammonia, nitrate all 0) also, will it disappear if in fact it is my systems way of naturally lowering levels. At this point, any insight on the subject would be hopefully as I am a bit confused as to whether or not this is harmful to my tank. Only occupants in the tank is a damsel & pepermint shrimp.
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Brown Algae, Diatom Algae?
- Thread starter SlingingBuddha
- Start date
What do you mean my silicates, I haven't encountered this word before so I'm unsure as to what it means and google was no help
First off, do not fear diatoms if you have a new tank. As Mike said, they feed off of silicates, which is found in new sand, and sometimes rock that you place in your tank. Some salt mixes also contain a small amount that contributes to this too. Once they go through their "bloom" they consume what is in the tank and as long as you don't introduce any more silicates, you shouldn't see diatoms again.
Try not to disturb diatoms because when you try to remove it, you tend to stir up the sand, which introduces more silicates into the water, further feeding the diatoms. You're best bet is to just let them die off, or, if you can scrape it off the glass and suction it out of the tank at the same time, that is good to do.
But to help you understand how/why your tank cycles...
I'm not going to get too technical into the process of a tank "cycle" but at a basic level, there are are 4 stages:
1. Ammonia mixes with oxygen and feeds the naturally growing bacteria(called nitrosomonas.) This produces nitrites as waste gas from the bacteria.
2. Nitrites mix with oxygen and feeds another natural bacteria called nitrobacter (or nitrifying bacteria). This produces nitrates as waste gas from these consuming the nitrites.
3. Nitrates (along with phosphates that are created as waste from your fish eating) are the tricky part to remove, and keep out of your tank. The reason is because a cycle never really ends, it just keeps "balanced" at some point where one stage of bacteria consumes the one from the previous stage until we get to the nitrates. Nitrates are harmful, but not as harmful as the other two stages, so we want to remove them through various methods: Skimmers, chemical reactors to absorb it (GFO or Phosban, etc), biopellets in a reactor, or algae that consumes the nitrates and phosphates. Some need a combination of these methods in order to keep up with the nitrates and phosphates being produced in their tanks. (Macro algae like chaetomorpha or mangroves or gracilaria, etc. will all help in removing these if you put some in your sump/fuge and give them plenty of flow and a light source.)
4. The last stage is when you have figured out a good combination of methods from #3 to keep your nitrates and phosphates down to zero (or as close as possible) on a consistent basis. If one of your methods falls behind (like an absorbing chemical needing to be changed out) then your nitrates and phosphates can start to increase and become harmful to your tank.
One other thing... algae growing in your tank can consume the bad stuff and unless you remove the algae from the tank, the bad stuff is not really out of the tank. If you don't remove the algae, it will continue to consume the bad stuff, but it will spread and take over your rockscape... likely killing all your corals in the process. So you don't want algae in your tank as the best means of removing the bad stuff.
Putting macro algae in the sump/fuge is a popular choice (or even an algae scrubber system) because that's a way of purposely growing an algae by consuming your tanks bad stuff... but it's out of sight and not in your display tank. Also, you can remove it more effectively without having it get introduced into the water column of you tank, which will make it spread even more.
Anyway, hope that helps you understand the process a bit.
Try not to disturb diatoms because when you try to remove it, you tend to stir up the sand, which introduces more silicates into the water, further feeding the diatoms. You're best bet is to just let them die off, or, if you can scrape it off the glass and suction it out of the tank at the same time, that is good to do.
But to help you understand how/why your tank cycles...
I'm not going to get too technical into the process of a tank "cycle" but at a basic level, there are are 4 stages:
1. Ammonia mixes with oxygen and feeds the naturally growing bacteria(called nitrosomonas.) This produces nitrites as waste gas from the bacteria.
2. Nitrites mix with oxygen and feeds another natural bacteria called nitrobacter (or nitrifying bacteria). This produces nitrates as waste gas from these consuming the nitrites.
3. Nitrates (along with phosphates that are created as waste from your fish eating) are the tricky part to remove, and keep out of your tank. The reason is because a cycle never really ends, it just keeps "balanced" at some point where one stage of bacteria consumes the one from the previous stage until we get to the nitrates. Nitrates are harmful, but not as harmful as the other two stages, so we want to remove them through various methods: Skimmers, chemical reactors to absorb it (GFO or Phosban, etc), biopellets in a reactor, or algae that consumes the nitrates and phosphates. Some need a combination of these methods in order to keep up with the nitrates and phosphates being produced in their tanks. (Macro algae like chaetomorpha or mangroves or gracilaria, etc. will all help in removing these if you put some in your sump/fuge and give them plenty of flow and a light source.)
4. The last stage is when you have figured out a good combination of methods from #3 to keep your nitrates and phosphates down to zero (or as close as possible) on a consistent basis. If one of your methods falls behind (like an absorbing chemical needing to be changed out) then your nitrates and phosphates can start to increase and become harmful to your tank.
One other thing... algae growing in your tank can consume the bad stuff and unless you remove the algae from the tank, the bad stuff is not really out of the tank. If you don't remove the algae, it will continue to consume the bad stuff, but it will spread and take over your rockscape... likely killing all your corals in the process. So you don't want algae in your tank as the best means of removing the bad stuff.
Putting macro algae in the sump/fuge is a popular choice (or even an algae scrubber system) because that's a way of purposely growing an algae by consuming your tanks bad stuff... but it's out of sight and not in your display tank. Also, you can remove it more effectively without having it get introduced into the water column of you tank, which will make it spread even more.
Anyway, hope that helps you understand the process a bit.
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George, while the biology part was good, the chemistry part is a miss. You might need to double check the source of your Silicates. Silicates usually come from one of two sources in a reef tank, both of which are a key component to this hobby, glass and water. The rocks and sand we should use are calcium based Aragonite, which is nothing more than calcium carbonate (CaCO-3). Sand from the Jersey Shore and Home Depot "play" sand are Silica (SiO-2) based and should not be used in a Reef tank. As I mentioned, it can also come from tap water, and there are special high silica filters for your RO-DI if your towns water is high in silicates.
Diatoms consume the available Silicates that are present from the glass in a new aquarium, but will subside over time as the available Silica is depleted.
Diatoms consume the available Silicates that are present from the glass in a new aquarium, but will subside over time as the available Silica is depleted.
I edited a couple of spelling errors in my last post and wanted to add one more thing... but since GoIrish already ready it and Brian graciously corrected me, I decided to add another post instead of editing the last one again.
Brian is correct in that the sand we should use is made of aragonite and not silica, but not everyone does what they "should".
I didn't think of mentioning that new glass is a good source of silica... but indeed that is true. Good catch Brian! Yes, you can also get some from tap water, but a good RO/DI should eliminate it from that source. Still, some salt mixes do have traces of it and water changes can actually introduce more silicates if you don't filter the water properly first.
Which brings me to the other point I wanted to add...
Weekly water changes (using salt mix made from RO/DI filtered water) will also help with removing the nitrates and phosphates (as well as ammonia and nitrites) so it's good practice to do those regularly. Water changes are important to not only remove the bad stuff, but they also replenish other minerals that your corals need to grow (calcium, magnesium, strontium, etc.).
And always remember the saying: The Solution to Pollution is Dilution!
Brian is correct in that the sand we should use is made of aragonite and not silica, but not everyone does what they "should".
I didn't think of mentioning that new glass is a good source of silica... but indeed that is true. Good catch Brian! Yes, you can also get some from tap water, but a good RO/DI should eliminate it from that source. Still, some salt mixes do have traces of it and water changes can actually introduce more silicates if you don't filter the water properly first.Which brings me to the other point I wanted to add...
Weekly water changes (using salt mix made from RO/DI filtered water) will also help with removing the nitrates and phosphates (as well as ammonia and nitrites) so it's good practice to do those regularly. Water changes are important to not only remove the bad stuff, but they also replenish other minerals that your corals need to grow (calcium, magnesium, strontium, etc.).
And always remember the saying: The Solution to Pollution is Dilution!
Here is another question, I initially had my 55g filled to the brim prior to sand & rock so obviously when I adde those two items in I had extra water which I saved in a 5g bin, is this water safe to use for a water change or should I make new water? Also, with my phosphates high is there anything I can do within my take to get them down or is it just weekly water changes which will over time subside? I forgot to mention, the water I have in the 5g has phosphates through the roof, at a 5 for some reason, I saw you said an RO/DI(i have one) should eliminate it but at such a high level so to speak? Sorry for asking so many questions, I'm new to the hobby so as I stumble across problems I tend to throw them up here because as I research more & more I fin that everyone has their own opinion on each topic so it's nice to hear from people who have dealt with the same issues or are currently dealing with them
Test your tap water before you add the salt and measure what the PO4 is. What kind of bucket are you storing the water in? Some plastics have high amounts of PO4 that can leach into the water when stored.
You can run GFO or PhosGuard to help lower the PO4 in the tank along with growing (and harvasting) macro algae.
You can run GFO or PhosGuard to help lower the PO4 in the tank along with growing (and harvasting) macro algae.
I'm using a standard plastic bucket from Home Depot, I am unsure of the PO4 content 
I attached a photo of my phos levels from tap water it seems to be at a .5
I attached a photo of my phos levels from tap water it seems to be at a .5Did you also test the water once it has gone through the RODI unit?
If that 5g of water has high phosphates, chuck it. The point of doing water changes is to dilute bad things, not add more to the tank. Phosphates can be dropped several ways. Dilution through water changes, adding some sort of phosphate absorber (I would recomend phosban/rowaphos/BRS stuff through a reactor) and of course the most important thing: finding the source of your phosphates and not adding them to the tank. Phosphates can be present in your water (as you found out) your food or trapped in rock and sand that can then leach into your tank.
Good luck and keep asking questions, that is why this board exists.
If that 5g of water has high phosphates, chuck it. The point of doing water changes is to dilute bad things, not add more to the tank. Phosphates can be dropped several ways. Dilution through water changes, adding some sort of phosphate absorber (I would recomend phosban/rowaphos/BRS stuff through a reactor) and of course the most important thing: finding the source of your phosphates and not adding them to the tank. Phosphates can be present in your water (as you found out) your food or trapped in rock and sand that can then leach into your tank.
Good luck and keep asking questions, that is why this board exists.
I'm just breaking out the RO/DI unit now for the first time. I'm in the process of hooking it up and figuring it out. Instead of using the Home Depot bin I'm using an instant ocean container in hopes that this would be better for storage
Just finished cycling water through the RO/DI, phosphates are at 0 .25 the highest (in need of a new test kit the one I have is a bit hard to differentiate the colors. That being said, regardless the phos levels are much better I'm going to retest in 2 days to ensure my bucket isn't giving off any phosphates while the temperature acclimates as well. I also intend on leaving the lights off all day Tuesday as they are on for extended periods of time between college & work (630a-10p) all in all, we're looking alot better. Thanks for all your help mnat
Those api test kits aren't the greatest.
Get yourself a Hanna Checker for phosphates. It's a digital display reading that's very accurate. No guessing involved. Make sure it's model number HI 713.
Get yourself a Hanna Checker for phosphates. It's a digital display reading that's very accurate. No guessing involved. Make sure it's model number HI 713.
Are you aware of any test kits that are fully digital which will test ph, nitrates etc? To avoid mix up while testing with an API kit.
Not aware of any for nitrates. For pH, you can always get a pH probe/Monitor like Pinpoint or Milwaukee brands... those will run you between $80 to $100 each, but they are "monitors" of pH and give you a constant reading on pH. You'll never have to take another water sample to get your pH reading again... and no more chemicals needed either. In the long run, these are the way to go.
Only reason I would suggest not getting a pH monitor is if you plan on getting a reef controller at some point. Those usually have a pH probe port on them too, and not only will you be able to monitor pH from them... but you will also be able to use that reading to control when a dosing pump (with Alk solution) to keep pH at a consistent level range.
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Only reason I would suggest not getting a pH monitor is if you plan on getting a reef controller at some point. Those usually have a pH probe port on them too, and not only will you be able to monitor pH from them... but you will also be able to use that reading to control when a dosing pump (with Alk solution) to keep pH at a consistent level range.
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Yeah I'm looking into the reef angel plus so I'd just get a ph probe for the controller, now I have a 55g would it be beneficial for me to get a skimmer rated for 120g+ or would it be a waste? I was looking into the reef octopus nwb110
Having a bigger skimmer is generally the rule of thumb. It lets you stock the tank how you want, not what your skimmer is rated for. You don't want to go TOO big like a skimmer rated for 500g but where you are, that would be a good skimmer. I have a reef octopus skimmer and am really happy with it.
Yeah I think I'm going to get the one rated for 120g since its only $20 more, I actually have another question lol. I see the diatom algae is beginning to affect my coralline algae it looks dull and tv coralline is essentially being consumed by the diatom algae it's going over top of it. Is this harmful to my coralline? I just did a 10% water change about 30 minutes ago hopefully will see some results within the next few days