I remember when i was younger my older brother had a saltwater aquarium and i was always interested in it. Now im 22 and want to start getting into it and i figure i would start with something small. Ive been reading around and have gotten some information but im still lost. I do have a 30g tank but im thinking it may be better to start with something like a 12g bio cube since it seems more beginner friendly and i have no clue about lighting for tanks, filtration, etc. Whats the best way of getting LR and LS at a reasonable price. I have much more questions but this is a start. Thanks
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- Thread starter CONSTANTNE
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Welcome 
Actually a 30g isn't a bad start, the more volume you have the more room for error(not that there's much room for that at all). The first thing you should decide is what type of tank you want fish only w/ lr or a reef. Decide what animals you may want if going with a reef soft corals(leathers) lps or sps or a mixture. Based on these decisions you'll be ready to purchase the proper light.
Filtration is important, you need to decide if you'll be running a sump, equally you want as much lr in there to help with filtration. With a tank of 30g I would shoot for 40-45lbs of lr. The least expensive way to get lr is to check out the fs forums here and reef central, I know some of us will trade you a cup of "seed" sand for a cup of unseeded sand.
Actually a 30g isn't a bad start, the more volume you have the more room for error(not that there's much room for that at all)
. The first thing you should decide is what type of tank you want fish only w/ lr or a reef. Decide what animals you may want if going with a reef soft corals(leathers) lps or sps or a mixture. Based on these decisions you'll be ready to purchase the proper light. Filtration is important, you need to decide if you'll be running a sump, equally you want as much lr in there to help with filtration. With a tank of 30g I would shoot for 40-45lbs of lr. The least expensive way to get lr is to check out the fs forums here and reef central, I know some of us will trade you a cup of "seed" sand for a cup of unseeded sand.
Agree completely with sinkingbeach above.
1. What type of tank do you want? Fish only, soft coral reef, LPS coral reef or SPS coral reef. Each step takes a bit more work, a bit more lighting, a bit more money and a some more careful monitoring. Gross generalizations, but true to a certain extent.
For a fish only tank the type of lighting you choose is purely asthetic. Your fish dont *need* special lighting, but you certainly want bulbs that will help bring out the most color in your fish.
Soft corals, polyps, mushrooms...these corals are among the most forgiving in the reef aquaria world. Though they can be sensitive to changes in water quality, then are often hardy and grow well. They also dont need the strongest types of lighting. Many of them do well under higher lighting, but again its not necessary. Zoanthids, xenia, anthelia, leather corals, mushrooms, polyps...these are common "Starter corals" for many people.
LPS = large polyp stony corals. These are a bit more demanding than soft corals as far as lighting and water quality, but in my experience many are quite hardy. Brain corals are probably one of the most common types of corals in this group.
SPS = small polyp stony corals. Undoubtedly the most light demanding and most sensitive corals that you can have in your tank. Proper calcium levels and other trace elements are a must to keep these corals. Water flow must be adequate (often very high water turnover) and careful monitoring of water quality. Lighting for these corals isnt cheap and brings other issues...heat being one of them. These are the staghorn, acropora type corals that are the backbone (literally) to most natural reefs. They are the ones that get all the glory on the Discovery channel programs...and rightly so, they are amazing creatures.
2. Tank size. Most people will say bigger is better. Thats probably true to an extent because the most water volume you have, the more of a buffer you have with water quality. A change in pH in a 30g tank isnt seen as quickly as in a 6g tank.
Tank size also dictates what types of fish and corals you can have. Always better to have a tank that offers you more choice of livestock than to try and justify a large fish in a small space. Research different fish that you like and learn about their requirements.
3. Lighting. As mentioned above. There are different types of lighting and each allows different livestock as far as corals.
NO = normal output fluorescent. These are the typical thick fluorescent tubes you see on many freshwater tanks. Fine for fish-only tanks, but wont cut it for corals.
PC = power compact. Very common type of bulbs. More output and more choices as far as color/spectrum. Depending on wattage (how much you put over the tank) you can keep a decent variety of corals from softies to LPS. Some will even argue some less demanding SPS corals. I have never kept SPS with PCs, but I know its been done.
VHO = high output fluorescent. Another common type of bulb that is similar in character to PC.
T5. These are thinner size fluorescent tubes. Again, similar lines as PCs and VHO. These generally burn cooler and last longer than the above mentioned bulbs, and some will say have adequate output for all types of corals and clams. I have kept many different corals and clams under these lights, although some will argue that long term these are not the best choice for high-light creatures. Again, lots of color/spectrum choices.
MH = metal halide. The pinnacle of reef lighting. Bright and shimmery. These lights will give you that real reef look, but at a cost. They are pricey..although worth the investment for most people. They run warm so some tanks will need a chiller in order to maintain proper water temperatures. Many color/spectrum choices. These lights allow you to keep any type of coral or clam.
4. Filtration.
Live rock and live sand (rock and sand from the ocean that houses *good* bacteria that will help break down nitrogenous waste) is the cornerstone of most saltwater tanks. At least for the last 15 years or so. Most types of live rock require at least a 1:1 ratio of pounds to gallons in order to achieve the best amount of positive bacteria. Surface area and porosity of the rock also matter. But you dont want so much rock that your water volume is compromised. Rock can take up a lot of space and quickly turn a 55g tank into, in effect, a 30g tank. Same goes for the sand.
Other types of filters include power filters, canister filters, wet dry filters and internal filters.
Protein skimmers and refugiums are the way most reefkeepers lean.
Hope thats at least a little informative. Sorry I fizzled out at the end...longest post ever on NJRC for me!
1. What type of tank do you want? Fish only, soft coral reef, LPS coral reef or SPS coral reef. Each step takes a bit more work, a bit more lighting, a bit more money and a some more careful monitoring. Gross generalizations, but true to a certain extent.
For a fish only tank the type of lighting you choose is purely asthetic. Your fish dont *need* special lighting, but you certainly want bulbs that will help bring out the most color in your fish.
Soft corals, polyps, mushrooms...these corals are among the most forgiving in the reef aquaria world. Though they can be sensitive to changes in water quality, then are often hardy and grow well. They also dont need the strongest types of lighting. Many of them do well under higher lighting, but again its not necessary. Zoanthids, xenia, anthelia, leather corals, mushrooms, polyps...these are common "Starter corals" for many people.
LPS = large polyp stony corals. These are a bit more demanding than soft corals as far as lighting and water quality, but in my experience many are quite hardy. Brain corals are probably one of the most common types of corals in this group.
SPS = small polyp stony corals. Undoubtedly the most light demanding and most sensitive corals that you can have in your tank. Proper calcium levels and other trace elements are a must to keep these corals. Water flow must be adequate (often very high water turnover) and careful monitoring of water quality. Lighting for these corals isnt cheap and brings other issues...heat being one of them. These are the staghorn, acropora type corals that are the backbone (literally) to most natural reefs. They are the ones that get all the glory on the Discovery channel programs...and rightly so, they are amazing creatures.
2. Tank size. Most people will say bigger is better. Thats probably true to an extent because the most water volume you have, the more of a buffer you have with water quality. A change in pH in a 30g tank isnt seen as quickly as in a 6g tank.
Tank size also dictates what types of fish and corals you can have. Always better to have a tank that offers you more choice of livestock than to try and justify a large fish in a small space. Research different fish that you like and learn about their requirements.
3. Lighting. As mentioned above. There are different types of lighting and each allows different livestock as far as corals.
NO = normal output fluorescent. These are the typical thick fluorescent tubes you see on many freshwater tanks. Fine for fish-only tanks, but wont cut it for corals.
PC = power compact. Very common type of bulbs. More output and more choices as far as color/spectrum. Depending on wattage (how much you put over the tank) you can keep a decent variety of corals from softies to LPS. Some will even argue some less demanding SPS corals. I have never kept SPS with PCs, but I know its been done.
VHO = high output fluorescent. Another common type of bulb that is similar in character to PC.
T5. These are thinner size fluorescent tubes. Again, similar lines as PCs and VHO. These generally burn cooler and last longer than the above mentioned bulbs, and some will say have adequate output for all types of corals and clams. I have kept many different corals and clams under these lights, although some will argue that long term these are not the best choice for high-light creatures. Again, lots of color/spectrum choices.
MH = metal halide. The pinnacle of reef lighting. Bright and shimmery. These lights will give you that real reef look, but at a cost. They are pricey..although worth the investment for most people. They run warm so some tanks will need a chiller in order to maintain proper water temperatures. Many color/spectrum choices. These lights allow you to keep any type of coral or clam.
4. Filtration.
Live rock and live sand (rock and sand from the ocean that houses *good* bacteria that will help break down nitrogenous waste) is the cornerstone of most saltwater tanks. At least for the last 15 years or so. Most types of live rock require at least a 1:1 ratio of pounds to gallons in order to achieve the best amount of positive bacteria. Surface area and porosity of the rock also matter. But you dont want so much rock that your water volume is compromised. Rock can take up a lot of space and quickly turn a 55g tank into, in effect, a 30g tank. Same goes for the sand.
Other types of filters include power filters, canister filters, wet dry filters and internal filters.
Protein skimmers and refugiums are the way most reefkeepers lean.
Hope thats at least a little informative. Sorry I fizzled out at the end...longest post ever on NJRC for me!
Thanks for the quick response and information. I know that i definately want fish and coral. Im just trying to figure out with a budget of around $200 would i be able to get all the equiptment and LR and LS for the 30 gallon? Because i found an aquapod for around 120 and i figure with LR and LS i will be around the $200 mark probably.
I'm new to NJRC but have been involved with SW aquarium systems for many years. The best possible advice I can give anyone new to the hobby is to get yourself several good books on state of the art reef aquariums, read them, and acquire some basic knowledge necessary to properly setup and maintain a reef system.
Two good ones to start with are -
The New Marine Aquarium by Michale S. Paletta
The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner
Once you get that far you'll be in a position to start. The advice given in the other posts is excellent, but it is also necessary to know why you do all this stuff.
As for cost. Reef aquariums are an expensive item to get involved in. Some money can be saved by going the DIY route or making a purchase of used equipment. Usually I tell people the for every gallon of water in the main display tank they will end up spending about $35 to $50 by they time they get the tank fully stocked and all the equipment needed. So that 30 gal tank will ultimately translate into about $1050 to $1500.
That's the bad news about the hobby. The good news is that you don't need to spend this all at one time. It's a good idea to add up everything you'll need before you start. Don't forget items you'll need that as not so obvious, such as test kits, containers for mixing SW, and cost of electricity to run the system. An RO/DI unit, and a refractometer are items I'd consider highly desirable. There are also items you need on an ongoing basis such as annual light bulb replacement, food for the fish and corals, salt, and so on.
Good luck with your tank. I'm sure you'll find the hobby very rewarding.
Two good ones to start with are -
The New Marine Aquarium by Michale S. Paletta
The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner
Once you get that far you'll be in a position to start. The advice given in the other posts is excellent, but it is also necessary to know why you do all this stuff.
As for cost. Reef aquariums are an expensive item to get involved in. Some money can be saved by going the DIY route or making a purchase of used equipment. Usually I tell people the for every gallon of water in the main display tank they will end up spending about $35 to $50 by they time they get the tank fully stocked and all the equipment needed. So that 30 gal tank will ultimately translate into about $1050 to $1500.
That's the bad news about the hobby. The good news is that you don't need to spend this all at one time. It's a good idea to add up everything you'll need before you start. Don't forget items you'll need that as not so obvious, such as test kits, containers for mixing SW, and cost of electricity to run the system. An RO/DI unit, and a refractometer are items I'd consider highly desirable. There are also items you need on an ongoing basis such as annual light bulb replacement, food for the fish and corals, salt, and so on.
Good luck with your tank. I'm sure you'll find the hobby very rewarding.
I will have to take a trip to barnes and noble to check them out. Thats why i was considering a smaller tank because it wouldnt cost me as much.
12g Aquapod $120.00
15w heater $20.00
15lb LR $75.00
15lb sand $20.00
You will still need test kits, thermometer, hydrometer (or refractometer), salt, water, cleaning supplies, water change supplies. Also filtration supplies (mesh bags, carbon).
The best way to start off is by buying used equipment if possible or using what you already have.
Old tanks, provided they are still in good condition and werent treated with any hazardous meds, can be a great way to start.
Buying rock and sand from people breaking down tanks is a great idea...second hand live rock (although usually better than what you buy in the store) typically sells for $2.50-$3.00/lb. Sand, especially for a nano, can often be secured pretty easily through a "cupful donation" or sand trade.
Keep an eye out, or even put a post in the FOR SALE forum and see what happens.
Sometimes you run into great deals.
About 2 months ago I sold a 12g nanocube with all the equipment, pumps, heater, cleaning supplies, bulbs, etc for $120 or so. All the person had to do was add rock, sand and water.
Patience.
15w heater $20.00
15lb LR $75.00
15lb sand $20.00
You will still need test kits, thermometer, hydrometer (or refractometer), salt, water, cleaning supplies, water change supplies. Also filtration supplies (mesh bags, carbon).
The best way to start off is by buying used equipment if possible or using what you already have.
Old tanks, provided they are still in good condition and werent treated with any hazardous meds, can be a great way to start.
Buying rock and sand from people breaking down tanks is a great idea...second hand live rock (although usually better than what you buy in the store) typically sells for $2.50-$3.00/lb. Sand, especially for a nano, can often be secured pretty easily through a "cupful donation" or sand trade.
Keep an eye out, or even put a post in the FOR SALE forum and see what happens.
Sometimes you run into great deals.
About 2 months ago I sold a 12g nanocube with all the equipment, pumps, heater, cleaning supplies, bulbs, etc for $120 or so. All the person had to do was add rock, sand and water.
Patience.
Yea i was trying to figure if i can use the 30g tank but its just going to be expensive for me. That was a good deal on the nanocube you sold. And as far as LR and LS goes, is it best to order online or are there any good stores around nj?
A store over here by Philly sells rock for just under $4.00/lb
I think the club actually sells rock...not too sure about that though.
If you already have the 30g tank you might be OK collecting rock and sand, and then look around for used lights.
Going slow and saving money to buy better equipment is, dare I say it, half the fun for me!
What are the dimensions of the tank?
You might be able to get the rock and sand for $150. That will leave some money for a heater, filter and powerheads (water movement pumps). Also salt and water.
Once you have that its really a waiting game for at least a month before the tank is ready for fish and corals...so you could use that time to save and scout out lights
I think the club actually sells rock...not too sure about that though.
If you already have the 30g tank you might be OK collecting rock and sand, and then look around for used lights.
Going slow and saving money to buy better equipment is, dare I say it, half the fun for me!
What are the dimensions of the tank?
You might be able to get the rock and sand for $150. That will leave some money for a heater, filter and powerheads (water movement pumps). Also salt and water.
Once you have that its really a waiting game for at least a month before the tank is ready for fish and corals...so you could use that time to save and scout out lights
The tanks dimensions are 30"W X 19"H X 12"D. Thats not a bad idea either im just thinking of the expenses like lighting and maintanences i will have to do.
I also found a 12g cube master that has moonlights and comes with a free 75w or 100w WEIPRO Heater. Dont know how good that tank is though.
I can't echo what the previous postings say enough...
Research, research, research.
I am new to the hobby myself. I had an opportunity to grab a 90 gallon reef tank but I only had about a week or two to prepare. Read everything you can and take it SLOW.
It is very easy to dive into the hobby and spend hundreds of dollars in the first weeks only to find that your tank was not ready for such a large bio-load.
I also recommend finding a good local fish store in your area rather than a large chain. This way you can establish a relationship with the person and they can help guide you with practical advise. I have had good retailers tell me frankly "You are not ready for this fish, coral etc." and guide me down the path until I was.
The good news is that you are in good company. The NJRC has been a great help in answering questions. There is a large group of people who will gladly lend time and advise to ensure the success of a new tank.
Kenny Z.
Research, research, research.
I am new to the hobby myself. I had an opportunity to grab a 90 gallon reef tank but I only had about a week or two to prepare. Read everything you can and take it SLOW.
It is very easy to dive into the hobby and spend hundreds of dollars in the first weeks only to find that your tank was not ready for such a large bio-load.
I also recommend finding a good local fish store in your area rather than a large chain. This way you can establish a relationship with the person and they can help guide you with practical advise. I have had good retailers tell me frankly "You are not ready for this fish, coral etc." and guide me down the path until I was.
The good news is that you are in good company. The NJRC has been a great help in answering questions. There is a large group of people who will gladly lend time and advise to ensure the success of a new tank.
Kenny Z.
Yea im really glad i found this forum. I was thinking to just buy the tank, LR, and LS and then get that running while i research more on fish, coral, cleanup crew, etc
Research first, before you spend any money on a tank, LR or LS, or anything else, except books.
These are critical components of a reef system. Don't start off bad. It a lot more expensive to buy it twice.
I know you want to get this going, but it would be a big mistake to buy anything now. As it's been said "nothing good every happens quickly in a reef system".
These are critical components of a reef system. Don't start off bad. It a lot more expensive to buy it twice.
I know you want to get this going, but it would be a big mistake to buy anything now. As it's been said "nothing good every happens quickly in a reef system".
I agree. Im not jumping into anything right away. I was just thinking of buying a tank and getting it setup for now while doing research.
The reason behind not getting anything is because you might desire a different tank size, live rock, or clean up crew. They are not "one size fits all".
You could easily figure that a larger tank would give better results, or that a small tank would be more affordable. Live rock can vary depending upon the source. Different people like different live rock. Even the clean up crew will change depending upon the fish you want.
Each choice in equipment and later on livestock, effect all your other choices. It's possible to "paint yourself into a corner" by choosing the wrong items, and the only way out are expensive upgrades.
You could easily figure that a larger tank would give better results, or that a small tank would be more affordable. Live rock can vary depending upon the source. Different people like different live rock. Even the clean up crew will change depending upon the fish you want.
Each choice in equipment and later on livestock, effect all your other choices. It's possible to "paint yourself into a corner" by choosing the wrong items, and the only way out are expensive upgrades.
I used to tell people there are two ways to start getting into marine aquariums...
The expensive way and the more expensive way....
The expensive way is to educate your self by reading, reading and reading some more... Visit the LFS and ask questions. Look at there systems and try to understand how each piece of the filtration system works...
The build your system on paper. Then purchase quality products, which are expensive but will last and do the job they are designed to do...
The more expensive way is to just jump into this hobby and end up replacing half the crap that the LFS sold you in the first place that really doesn't work all the good, but it's what they stock.
A couple of points... Poor quality lighting, regardless of what your live stock intentions will assist in algae problems if you don't have clean source water or really good filtration system to remove DOC.
IMHO - A quality Protein Skimmer is the single most important piece of equipment.
RO/DI unit will make your trip into this world much more enjoyable in the long run.
The expensive way and the more expensive way....
The expensive way is to educate your self by reading, reading and reading some more... Visit the LFS and ask questions. Look at there systems and try to understand how each piece of the filtration system works...
The build your system on paper. Then purchase quality products, which are expensive but will last and do the job they are designed to do...
The more expensive way is to just jump into this hobby and end up replacing half the crap that the LFS sold you in the first place that really doesn't work all the good, but it's what they stock.
A couple of points... Poor quality lighting, regardless of what your live stock intentions will assist in algae problems if you don't have clean source water or really good filtration system to remove DOC.
IMHO - A quality Protein Skimmer is the single most important piece of equipment.
RO/DI unit will make your trip into this world much more enjoyable in the long run.
M_Shannon said:
An excellent point!
M_Shannon said:
The cynic in me would add "...and after a few laughs at their jokes, ignore the advice and get what you really need." Most local LFSs, especially the chains are clueless about reef systems, however there are some exceptions. Always trust, but verify what the LFS store says.
Good advices above. Just a couple of pointers from my experience. First of all I believe that 200$ target is very unrealistic for any kind of corals. While an experienced reefer can create and maintain it for a year under that price, the beginner will probably not. And it might be enough to start with, but it will gradually accumulate through trials and errors. In the end, salt alone will probably cost you 50$ over a year, and I dare anyone to find the complete and reliable set of tests under 50$ (salinity, pH, Alk, T, NH3, NO2, NO3, PO4, Ca). And, do you have a RO unit (100-150$)?
As for source of information, I would strongly recommend http://www.wetwebmedia.com .One of the authors of those two books mentioned, is/was prominent contributor on that site.
Finally, think about how much time you can devote to this hobby as well: the bigger the system is, all of the processes in it (thermal, chemical, biological) are more stable (more inert). The smaller it is, your attention is required more frequently.
As for source of information, I would strongly recommend http://www.wetwebmedia.com .One of the authors of those two books mentioned, is/was prominent contributor on that site.
Finally, think about how much time you can devote to this hobby as well: the bigger the system is, all of the processes in it (thermal, chemical, biological) are more stable (more inert). The smaller it is, your attention is required more frequently.