Dave’s 90g learning-curve glass room experiment

[fatoldsun]

Like so many others, I lost everything I had documented thus far with the website event - I'm calling the "Big Site Shaft" (BSS - could't come up with an "A" for "ASS") I guess everything now will be AHA (After Host Abandonment) –but hey, make lemonaide from lemons so I guess this is a good opportunity to clean it up a bit. Since a picture’s worth 1000 words I went with mostly pics and left the rest to your imagination. I also decided the old name was a poor choice – it was “90g build on a budget” but as I am reminded by my wife, any budget went out the window the day the tank was carried in from the uHaul. I figured better not to type-cast myself this go-round and instead to focus on what sets this experiment apart from some of the others I’ve read. The tank is in an all glass ‘sunroom’ meaning 3 walls and the ceiling/roof are entirely glass

I used Malulu’s google trick and recovered my first post. After that it didn’t seem worth it to try and go through the 200 or so posts that were there, so here is the kick-off….recovered (and edited)

The plan is to get started with a core package that I picked up from craigslist (sold due to a job relocation)
I hope to grow into a reef. A few beginner corals and some additional fish (I have 2 and a brittle star to start)
The limitations at this point are that I’m setting this up in an all glass sunroom so the idea of hiding from natural light isn’t possible. Hopefully this acts like a solar tube and I can control any extra algae. The room is otherwise a new addition that I just finished. I ran 2 dedicated 15A circuits with GFCIs in the basement so I’m not trying to get behind the tank if anything trips. I also ran 3/8” tubes for ATO (and possibly changes). I couldn’t put a sump or any other equipment in the basement.

here’s the first lot of stuff from the initial craigslist deal

Stuff I think I’ll keep:
90 AGA display
48” Coralife Aqualight Pro w/ 2 150W HQI + 2 96W Actinic 03 Blue (square-pin) & 4 1W LED moons
~250lbs of live rock
A Kent Marine RO/DI
6 large plastic drums(I think 5 are about 15-20g, + 1 @ 25g)
There was also a maroon & gold clown, a yellow tang, a brittle star and a couple fire hermits and 1 Astraea snail
2 10 gallon tanks (1 Iíll keep for quarantine)
A mag 9.5

temporary setup
There was a 55g with a separate HOB filter, heater, etc. I have about half the LR and the 2 fish and star holding over in there until I get the 90 up and cycled. I will keep it up for my initial QT and by the summer I hope to take it down. I will use one of the 10s for a QT after that


This stuff also tagged along – likely try and sell some of it:
A ProClear Aquatic Systems wet/dry w/ bio balls
A coralife 125 Super Skimmer
AGA plywood stand and hood
A couple throw-away hydrometers

I’ve acquired a few items (most from craigslist and the local forums) to add to my arsenal
40gLong which I plan to use for a sump/refugium adding my own baffles
Bubble Magnus NAC6
TLF Phosbanreactor with minijet 606 pump
Refracometer
Pinpoint pH monitor
160 lbs of aragonite sand from Marco Rocks

-I edited some of this but I didn’t really add the equipment to date so from memory, here goes:

DJ strip
ReefKeeper II (needs screen repair)
Tunze osmolator
PinPoint Salinity monitor
2 300W SERA heaters
2 Sunsun “wavemaker” vibration pumps - -eBay purchase to carry me until I can afford something more appropriate – claim that they are 1200 gph -

Room:
Here is the mostly finished room that made all of this possible. This was an eyesore when we moved in here – there was a room in place with several leaks and generally all but 2-3 glass panels had failed at their seals. I convinced my wife that if I did everything (except the metal framing and glass installation which was left to the pros so it didn’t leak) I would save $1000s and I could use some of that to start a tank. She agreed as long as I pulled permits for the electrical (4 new circuits - 2 for the tank, 1 for radiant floor heating and 1 for the room – ceiling fans, lighting and outlets) so after demo (and removal of a dead hot tub, a couple bouts with self leveling concrete and more than a few visits from the unfortunate inspector assigned to my permits I was finally able to lay the floor and finish the drywall, trim, etc. Presto, new room

The only downside was that the room had a LOT of natural light exposure which meant that I would likely deal with heat issues as well as algae issues. More on that later

 

[fatoldsun]

Stand:
I tried to over build this – I wanted a larger stand than I needed because I wanted to use a 40b for my sump/fuge and to leave room for other equipment/storage. Since the support was naturally spread out to the corners/edges, I had to reinforce the “deck” with joist hangers and all 2x6s. Just the framing, skinning and decks (w/o doors) is HEAVY!! It must weigh well over 200 lbs – maybe more than 300 lbs. A neighbor helped me get it in place

Framing:
IMG]http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee503/dzipin/Mobile%20Uploads/_Preview_.jpg[/IMG]

Here it is almost ready – all that’s left is to paint the top inset black

And finally in the room

I tried to build it square and level and I did for the most part but I could not match it perfectly to the floor so the tank is off level a tiny bit. I was afraid to shim it b/c I didn’t want to over-stress certain spots on the floor – I wanted to spread the load as much as possible.

 

[fatoldsun]

Sump
This started as a stock 40b – I had a few chances to pretend I was an engineer - not sure I would have made a very good one – oh, and if you’re reading enjoy the blue tape pics – it generated a lot of commentary on the ol’ original tale

My ‘rube’ bubble trap for the fuge (design compliments of redfishbluefish) – here’s my version of the design

And here it is

Sump going together – I used glass – A lasting tribute to my brother-in-law who passed away a couple weeks ago – he was a glazier and had an in with a local glass shop – got me all my baffles – even tempered and they were just taken out of his slush account from that shop.
So the weight of the baffles plus the slow-setting silicone adhesive meant trying to keep everything in place – This was attempt 2 of many trials and failures:

And here are some baffles in place and ‘set”

I also had to devise something to keep stuff from floating out of the fuge – I had a bunch of leftover PVC so here’s what I’ll try (this is the problem with glass baffles – you can’t cut in ‘teeth” very easily.

Plumbing layout is dry fit tested and glued

A light for the refugium – not an issue yet b/c the stand has no doors, but they’re coming soon.

The sump in place

…and finally up and running

 

[fatoldsun]

Tank finally in its new spot/home:

With the tank in place, time to start the cycle. I struggled a bit with the decision of what order to go in – sand then rock, or rock then sand. I used egg crate but I wanted to put the sand in first – I am still questioning which order was best. The sand storm was a mess. Even after extensive rincing (so much so that I thought I washed away 25%-50% of the first bucket b/c it was SOOO much finer than I expected. Not to mention rinsing dirt seemed counterproductive….


the sand took a solid week to settle running a PhosBan full of polyfil (instead of filter floss) and more polyfil jammed into a make-shift holder around my drain-line
The dust storm

This is what the refugium looked like

As I said I rigged up some stuff to speed up the clearing process

And this is the “filter floss” poly-fil after 18-24 hours

A nice layer of silt that settled before I was running any powerheads, just the drain and return

Once things settled I started adding rock. The sand was stirred up a bit b/c I moved as much sand as I could so the base layer was situated on the egg-crate. The first rock that went in was the stuff that was held over in my garage in a drum since I picked everything up in October. The rest was in the 55g hold-over tank with my livestock.

I tried to go the puzzle route and fit stuff together so it would be solid but in the interest of time and since the rock was “live’ I didn’t want to take it all out and dry-it so I could rock-scape and re-rock-scape. Hopefully I don’t get any slides

Here’s the final rock work

 

[fatoldsun]

CUC
1 Astraea had been in the 55

Added two more

A couple cerths (seemed really small)

1 large turbo

2 Caribbean nerites (thanks to mfisher2112 for the ID help)

He ID’d on the old tale and gave me this link which is great for IDing inverts
Snail profiles: http://www.peteducation.com/category.cfm?c=2+1906

2 nassarius

I also added a bunch of hermits - some blue legs, some red legs (plus had 2 red legs that I moved over) no pics of those


QT rack
Built this rack in my basement – It will hold some 10 gallons – maybe a bit larger to QT fish etc and keeping it in the basement on this unattractive rack should help me avoid any temptation of making this into a new DT
The top tank will be the ATO reservoir and use the OZ pump to push water up to my sump. I bought a tub of Kalk from the BRS group buy – just haven’t figured out how I’m gonna work that in.

Temps are going to be a big challenge given the location of this tank. The room is fed by 2 ducts and is tied to the house’s air and the glass is sold as having an R value of ‘R-9’ plus there are 2 ceiling fans in there to help move the air around and draw some cooler air in from the adjacent dining room (which has no windows, ironically)
This week (well last week) was as hot as it will get here – close to 100 (in June) and the room temp (with the house air kicking) hit 78. Tank climbed to 81. Last weekend I picked up a 1/3 HP Current drop-in chiller with a Ranco thermostat/controller. Well on a hot 90+ day I drove 1.5 hours to the wee south regions of NJ and after trekking deep into the woods I found the house and there on the front porch was the guy selling this chiller. He plugged in it and on it came. I grabbed hold of the probe and it seemed to get cold so I figured it would do the trick. Brought it home and set it up and nothing happened. The tank climbed up passed 78 to 81 and the chiller came on – it ran for 36 hours and the tank never hit 78 so I figured it must not be working (makes me a genius, right) so I guess you get what you pay for. I took a box fan and plugged it into the Ranco, set it up on a folding chair to run over the sump and before O could walk down to the basement and back up it dropped the tank to 78 and shut itself off – something the chiller couldn’t do in a day and a half. I guess I’ll look into the chiller and repair if for no other reason than I’d like to not have wasted all that $$$ - even though it was cheap compared with new.
There was no badge on it so I’m on faith that it is what he said although I think Current only made 2 drop-ins so it’s sort of narrowed down. Here is a label off the compressor I found when I opened ‘er up.

Not sure is Panasonic makes current chillers

…and the guts….

There was also a label on the capacitor which was made in the good ole US – it was a Mallory (which I assume is the same co. that makes aftermarket ignition systems for cars/hot rods).

This is evidence of what may be a refrigerant leak – now I have to find someone with some HVAC or small appliance repair experience and tools to see if this is salvageable

With the chiller a big question mark and the success of the box fan I decided to make some DIY screen tops to run some fans for evaporative cooling. Of course it should be noted that I have yet to fire up the MH lights so I’m sure I’ll see at least 2-3 degree climb from those so I need to either get the chiller working or get the fans up and running before they come on. Fortunately there is lots of natural light and only a couple fish and a CUC. Here’s is a shot of the screen. 2 separate screens with aluminum frame-rail from HD and screen & spline I had sitting in the garage. Took about 30 minutes

OK, now I think I'm caught up - as much as I'm gonna be I guess

 

[JRWOHLER]

Nice! I love that room, may be a challenge but is worth it I expect.

 

[shipwrecked]

That room rocks.What a collection of plants I would have in there.Along of course with the tank setup.Everything looks like its coming along well.Cont success on yr tank.

 

[Jcurry@wesketch]

That room would be great for a remote DSB with mangroves growing out of the tank.

 

[fatoldsun]

What a collection of plants I would have in there

As soon as I can get my wife passed the amount of real estate given up to the tank and associated equipment I will start working in plants

That room would be great for a remote DSB with mangroves growing out of the tank.

I thought about the mangroves but my refugium is in the stand and that's the closest thing I have to a RDSB. Of course with all that sunlight, even running GFO and cheato in the fuge I'm guessing my phosphates will me through the roof so I may need something like mangroves to eat up some of the excess. I still have lots of work to do with just the basic setup and then doors and a hood for the stand and after the defunct chiller I bought I hit my cap (spending) so I'm gonna have to try and make do with what I have for a WHILE. :'(

 

[fatoldsun]

I boosted my CUC on Friday. I’m not quite up to some of the recommendations that were offered when I posed the request for suggestions (before the site data was taken) but I am closer to where I need to be. This was my first experience ordering “livestock” from a website and getting a delivery via mail. It went VERY smoothly. I added a mix of ~40 snails, a dozen “baja red leg hermits” 2 green emerald crabs and a peppermint shrimp.


Acclimation started in the sump trying to get everything to tempriture.

Some general comments – I hope the Nassarius and peppermint shrimp earn their keep in cleaning b/c I quickly realized that I would likely never see them again. As soon as the snails went in the tank (with their pretty shells) they proceeded to immediately bury themselves in the sand bed. I mean it was fast!

And the shrimp. Well it came nicely packed with some Chaeto – I guess a snack for the trip – “your in-flight meal this evening will be some macro-algae and a side of delicious mixed copepods” and also a piece of screen. I guess the shrimp could hang on if the flight or the FedEx ride got bumpy. Anyway, he seemed content and I dropped him in the tank and my clown thought it was her inflight meal. The shrimp’s casual drop to the bottom turned into a frantic mad-dash for some cover in the rock work. Haven’t seen it since (and I looked at night with the moon lights on). If you’ve ever seen the movie Funny Farm – his name “Yellow Dog” might make sense.

I thought the crabs were the coolest addition of the mix. They immediately went to work scraping algae off the rock as soon as they landed. They coexisted in the bag for the trip without ripping each other’s limbs off which was nice. Like the shrimp, they had a piece of fiberglass window screen in the bag. No Chaeto tho – maybe they ate it all?

The Margaritas were cool – these varied in size – 2 were large and one of them was covered in something that looked like some sort of macro algae – maybe calupera? Maybe a sponge of some sort? You can kind of make it out in the pic - it's the one that looks like it's carpeted with 70s shag. Anyway it was unusual to see it covered in something when the others had pristine, semi-metallic shells. I also think their black foot is cool. Not sure all of them have that but 2 of the larger ones definitely do

Ceriths and Trochus didn’t really give me anything really out of the ordinary to comment on -

 

[fatoldsun]

I visited TanksNStuff last night to “borrow” some chaeto and get my refugium going – I think I’m in great shape now. Here’s my chaeto before Tanks’ generosity…

…and after

Plus I spotted this guy – I’m sure there are more hiding in that “shrubbery” but he was just chillin’ up top – for now I’ll name him the Knight who says Nee

But beyond all generosity was what came next. I came home with my first two corals so if I can keep these alive I can truly say I’ve graduated from FOWLR to REEF. I’m excited to say the least – and I bit nervous. George mentioned that he would give me a branch of hammer to get me started and I envisioned a frag and not something the size of a huge head of broccoli –

Hopefully it’ll be happy there and start to open up when the halides come on

As if that wasn’t enough, I look away for a second and he puts a Zoa in a bag for me to take too

…very generous and I only hope I can add to my system so that someday I can return the favor. Thanks George!

 

[TanksNStuff]

You're welcome Dave! I hope everything begins thriving for you. You never know what you might find in that chaeto. Could be some small snails, baby hermits, definitely some bristle worms. It should help your fuge for sure.

As far as the coral gifts go... my goal is to spread as many of my corals around to friends as possible. That way if something ever happens to mine... I have a backup in someone else's tank. ;D

By the look of the pics, everything seems to be happy in their new home so far.

 

[fatoldsun]

Finally got my ATO set up. The osomolator seems a little unreliable - I guess that’s why it was so cheap and “new” – I will at some point open up the box to look at the solder contacts but wiggling the power cord where it plugs in will cut the power. Anyway, the real issue was that I had the rack in the basement with an extra 10g glass tank that I wanted to use as a reservoir. Plan was to run the RO/DI to the 10g and set it up with a float switch shut off from BRS. The Tuzne pump would then push the ATO water up to my sump. All that was left was getting the float switch in the 10g w/o drilling so in true rube Goldberg fashion I devised this

May be hard to make up but I used straight 1/2" PVC – 2 end caps and a Tee. End caps are screwed into the floor joists and one is cut (hard to see in the pics) so I could “snap” the assembly into place and it would stay put. Then I just made a leg down to the correct length and installed the float switch – I’d like to find a bus tray (restaurant style) and set it up and a catch tray should the float fail – that will have a bulkhead and run a hose to my basement french drain to the sump pump. I’ve been to a couple restaurant supplys and no luck with something that would fit the 10g. even tried a cement mixing tray from HD and it was too short

On a separate note – also had these - nail eggs maybe???? If they are, is that a good thing? I doubt anything will come of these but if anyone has ideas what I can do to help their chances, please pass it on. Likewise if you think these are something else – something bad, please do say…. Sorry the pic’s a little blury.

I also got this snail with a bunch that I was told were ceriths. It looks a little more like a conch but it spends a lot of time on the glass and not in the sand so I am not certain what it is. Someone on RC said cerith. Thoughts

 

[TanksNStuff]

Love the hanging pvc thing. Is the float switch just mounted to the bottom leg of the TEE?

Is the float switch connected to a pump power source or is it just a gravity feed from the RO/DI? Reason I'm asking is I'm wondering how this activates the flow from the RO/DI. Is it always "ON" but just stopped by the float switch when the 10G is full? This leads to my next question of what about the "waste" line from the RO/DI... is that working on the same switch?

The way to make this work I suppose would be to have the switch controlling the inlet to the RO/DI, and thus controlling both outputs by controlling the input. Is this how you have it?

Yes, that appears to be snail eggs. Can't be 100% positive due to the blurry shot, but that's what they usually look like.

That snail is a cerith. Good to have in the tank.

 

[fatoldsun]

Is the float switch just mounted to the bottom leg of the TEE?

yep, hard to see in the pic but I just ripped it down so I could bolt through it

Is the float switch connected to a pump power source or is it just a gravity feed from the RO/DI? Reason I'm asking is I'm wondering how this activates the flow from the RO/DI. Is it always "ON" but just stopped by the float switch when the 10G is full? This leads to my next question of what about the "waste" line from the RO/DI... is that working on the same switch?

The way to make this work I suppose would be to have the switch controlling the inlet to the RO/DI, and thus controlling both outputs by controlling the input. Is this how you have it?

I'm using a float switch from BRS - also their Auto Shut Off Valve - it works by tying into the supply and the feed to the Resin (I think - it took a while to convert the directions I found to work with my Kent Marine setup) - basically when the float closes it builds back pressure which in turn stops the flow in so the waste line shuts off also. Oh, and it is gravity fed.

The only thing that remains unresolved is the membrane flush I installed - I used to run that before I started my top-off bucket refill and now it's always on so I don't have that. also I have to create a new way to make my change water since I used the same barrel before for both. I'd like to convert that barrel to sit as change water and QT water as needed and put an aqualifter in there just to send new water up when I need it. The only problem is the remote turn on/off the get that aqualifter to stop when the tank is "full" or I'll have some overflow while I run down to the basement to shut it off.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Dave, glad to see your tale is back up! I like the “Reader’s Digest” version that quickly brings you up to speed on what’s gone on. I didn’t realize from your original tale that the room was entirely all glass. With all that natural light, I’m sure your CUC will be kept fat and happy. After some time into your experiment, you might want to consider those blinds they make for glass ceilings. I’d also venture a guess that heat will be a problem….with all that sun and the MH lights. I struggle to keep my tank cool with T5’s, in a bedroom with the blinds kept closed, and a dedicated air conditioner.


If and when you want to take a trip to dazing Sayreville, I’ll give you whatever we can frag out of the tank....different softies, purple and red caps, birdsnest, candycane, whatever.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks Paul - I was just too lazy to go through all the work I'm sure it took you to completely rebuild your tale although I was grateful to see it b/c I've referred to it countless times and I'm glad to know it's there

And yes, there is lots of light in the room – life imitating art imitating life. It’s like a people tank with a fish tank in it – but hey, I like the cheery outlook - keeping the CUC happy is one way to put a positive spin on it. Actually so far the hair algae has been kept in check in the DT. In fact I have 2 mithrax crabs that look a bit pale (they’ve lost some of their emerald green color) - I may have to move one or both down to the sump b/c it's another story down there - tons of HA although I guess the snails down there are happy enough to have laid some eggs. On the other hand, I added a peppermint shrimp and after he was chased by the clown and scurried into the rock I never saw him again. Was counting on him to help with the vermitids.

Heat has been kept in check with the chiller I picked up – it’s a 1/3hp which would be overkill for a 125g system but it’s a drop-in so not as efficient as an inline. Took some work and cash to get it working right and probably wouldn’t have been that much more to buy a smaller inline NIB but such is life. Not everything I find on craigslist comes from an honest person, sadly. Anyway, I looked at the shades and WHOA would that be expensive. I’m also a bit fan of how bright it is in there and I know if we paid for the shades we’d keep them closed a lot. I like how open it is. The room temp’s not bad except mid-afternoon when the chiller is running - it gets a bit warm but if I crank the ceiling fans up and draw some cooler air in from the house it’s ok. You just can’t set anything down that you wouldn’t want blowing around the room. ;D

As for the trip to Sayreville, I’d love to add some color and such to the tank. Thanks to the generosity of TanksNStuff I have some coral to get me started – he gave me a cute little zoa and a HUGE piece of branching hammer coral which is slowly drawing my wife’s interest in. so far her favorite is still the brittle star I have but I think coral is a close second. If I can get her to “buy in” my cap restrictions may loosen a bit. Anyway, maybe a trip in the fall if the offer remains open. As George suggested, at least it’s a bit of insurance to keep some of that coral stock spread around if something should happen it’s good to know there’s colonies that can be flagged to seed a rebuild. After reading some of the scarier stories this summer (never know if it will be as simple as a power failure or as evil as sabotage) you never know what can happen…

 

[fatoldsun]

I decided to "move' my parameters check here - Hopefully it will be easier for me to track and all in one spot it may be helpful to others down the road as one example of a new set-up and what to expect. Not as "fun to watch” or "sexy" as new pics of nice frags or new friends in the tank but I'm a ways off from being there so I'll post what I can...

This is test one - have/vs/need - I added more important tests forward from 7/13 round
7/9
temp: 78 deg
Ca. 340ppm/380-450ppm
pH 7.71 / 8.1-8.3
NO3(nitrate) 0/0
NH3/NH4 (ammonia) 0.1/0.0
NO2 (nitrite) 0/0
PO4 (phosphate) 0.04 / >0.03
Salinity 1.025 /1.026

Salinity was low so I started to raise this by adding a gallon of 1.040

I picked up a RedSea test kit so Ca is "upgraded" and I added Mg and Alk

7/13 @ 11:30 PM
pH 7.72
temp 78
Salinity 1.0253 /1.026
Mg 1160 / 1350
Alk 7/2.5 / 12/4.3
Ca 340 / 380-420 (At least this is consistent with the API test)
Phos 0.0 (used my hanna checker - don't believe it though)

7/14 5% water change

7/19 12:00AM
pH 7.82
temp 78
Salinity 1.0259 /1.026 (getting closer)
Mg 1200 / 1350
Alk 9.2 dKH /3.3 mg/L / 12/4.3
Ca 380 / 380-420
Phos 0.3

The 5% change seemed to help a little everything seemed to respond nicely
– pH was up a bit (and I’ve noticed it is higher when I’ve looked in the afternoon) as well as Ca/Mg and Alk
I’m still questioning the testing, or my ability – it seems VERY prone to operator error. The redsea tests seem more “scientific” than the API tests but using Ca for example the difference in reading the changes between what would be 340 and 380 seem very slight. The difference between blue a purple is a challenge (and add colorblindness to this and maybe I should be less surprised – can I make an ADA request from my wife for Hanna Checkers – like a requisition at work?) Even the Hanna checkers seem prone to error – my 7/13 was 0.0 – unlikely if 7/9 and 7/19 were both 0.3. My guess is I didn’t get every last crumb of reagent in the test vile. How finicky are those?

7/19 (PM) 10% water change (I have my somewhat poor excuse for a “water making station” setup finally and I saw improvement with 5% so I’m looking forward to testing tonight and hoping to see things come closer to normal

 

[redfishbluefish]

PO4 (phosphate) 0.04 / >0.03

Dave, the above bolded symbol (>), is a GREATER THAN symbol. So if you want more phosphate, I’ll send you down some of my tank water. That should easily raise your phosphate above 0.03. ;D ;D ;D :

 

[fatoldsun]

PO4 (phosphate) 0.04 / >0.03

Dave, the above bolded symbol (>), is a GREATER THAN symbol. So if you want more phosphate, I’ll send you down some of my tank water. That should easily raise your phosphate above 0.03. ;D ;D ;D :

Man. I was wishing I paid more attention back in HS Chem. Guess those naps in math are biting me in the A$$ now too ;D technically "0.4 > 0.3" would be true. No "/" the slash screwed me up :-[