Designing a my new aquarium

[MikeF1986]

Hi all,

I recently introduced myself to the community on another thread and got some great responses. Seems like this forum will be fun and a huge help. I am in the process of designing my new aquarium and could use some serious help. I have had many tanks in the past but never a reef setup, so over the past 5 years I've obsessively researched and educated myself. I find myself now battling with disorganized information overload! From RODI systems to sump design, recirculating skimmers vs various depth skimmers, LED vs Halide...AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

So, instead of trying to design the system first, I tried to organize my thoughts by what I want out of tank.

- simple system
- simple corals, bright colored corals
- 100gallon range/60 inch maximum in length
- Sump/skimmer/space for reactors (if i want down the line)
- lots of negative space in the tank
- Chiller/Heater housed under tank next to sump
- Stock (not a must but things i like)
- Tangs (Purple, Powder Blue, Achilles, Yellow)
- Moorish Idol (I've heard they can be difficult)
- Anthias
- Smaller Angels
(I would prefer a few dramatic fish, rather than a fully stocked aquarium)
- I want efficient lighting for basic/easy to keep coral
- My love for the hobby continues to evolve, it is important that the system can advance as well

THINGS UP IN THE AIR
-Control panel?
-auto top-off?
-cal reactor?
-phos band?
-cycle via bacteria, real reef rock and dry sand instead of live (cost savings?)?
-RODI system

FEW THINGS TO NOTE
- I am NOT a handy guy, I struggle changing light bulbs
- I have no clue how to design water flow
- My budget is $4k, is this fair?
- Aside from a small quarantine tank, this will be it, so it's important I get it right..(words of my fiance)

I feel less lost but still lost after writing this...any and all suggestions appreciated!

THANKS GUYS!

 

[NyteGTI]

I know how you feel man, I like you am not that handy. I don't have trouble with light bulbs, but my entire tank is hose plumbed instead of pvc simply because it was easier than measuring it all & planning it out haha.

I'll help with what I can help with here.

your budget of 4K SHOULD cover what you want unless you need the best of everything. this hobby is as expensive as you want it to be. I'm at ~1300 for everything I have & im still short a skimmer so call it ~1600 in my 4' 90G tank before stocking fish & corals.
I'd look at a 120G standard size tank(4x2x2) it's nice & deep to give you tons of negative space. you can pick them up on local forums pretty easily & they're already RR(reef ready).

I HIGHLY recommend a controller since you'll need the top off, light timers, & heater controller anyways. I got the Reef keeper lite from a local club member & could not be happier with it. it's easily the best bang for the buck item in my tank.

the cost savings of dry rock & a bacteria additive vs live rock is IN MY OPINION huge. I love the little creatures you get on LR, BUT my little nano tank has had nothing but problems with different things because of it. for this reason alone, I decided to do a long cycle with dry rock in my 90.

RODI to most people is considered a must have for anybody with a bigger tank. if you've got a place to hook it up(laundry room, under a sink, basement) then it's invaluable. buying water simply isn't viable long term for a bigger tank. my 90 tops off ~1gal/day so if you include water changes you're looking at carrying 30-40 gallons of water back from your LFS every other week. it just is a pain & gets old VERY fast.

I'd be careful with the angels. some have had no problems in a reef tank & some have had to give up their fish to other hobbyists with FOWLRs.

You mentioned efficient lighting, well there's nothing more efficient than LEDs for aquariums right now. check out "Sunny's 350G build (was 150)" thread in the tale of the tank section if you want a look at what his LEDs have done for him. Also you may not need a chiller if you keep your house at a low enough temp in the summer with LEDs so there's that benefit.

That's all I have for now, if i think of anything else i'll write it up here.

 

[mnat]

You have to start with the size tank/sump you want because that will dictate what equipment you should/could get.

I agree with Ryan that a 120 (4x2x2) would be a really good choice. You will appreciate the two foot depth and save 6 inches on the sides which will give you some room to play with.

For a sump you can either buy a manufactured one which you have plenty of choice at that size (probably should look at 3 foot sumps) or buy a 40 breeder and have the baffles put in if you want to save some money.

The next two pieces of equipment are probably the most important so you should put in plenty of thought:

Skimmer: If you are going sump under stand, you will have plenty of choices for an in sump. You can't go wrong with SWC, Warner Marine, or reef octopus. They are three great brands that offer excellent value and should all fit in your stand. If you have the room you can look at external, but if you are planning on putting everything under sump then look at those brands. Buy one that is rated for higher than your system. So if 120g plus 40g breeder is 160, look for one rated around 180ish.

Lighting: You say what you want now it bright easy corals. This could change so I always recommend getting a little bit better. IMO you have 2 choices. Buy a nice (ATI) 4 foot T5 fixture with 6 or more bulbs. Pros: Can keep anything but if you decide to stick with easy corals, you are not over doing it. Cheap initial cost (compared to others). Almost no heat. Cons: Bulb replacement every year can add up, not as energy efficient as LEDs, not nearly as powerful as LEDs if you get into some SPS corals.

LEDs: Pros: Can keep anything you want, energy efficient, minimal bulb replacement costs, no heat issues. Cons: Expensive, might be over doing it if you want easier corals, can take some time to acclimate corals to them. Tons of success stories but still a new technology for growing corals.

Random stuff: You do not want to put your chiller in your stand. They kick out a ton of hot air when they operate which will defeat the purpose of itself if it is contained in your stand.

ATO is a must, leave room in the stand plan for a container for top off water

Cal reactor is not necessary if you do not want stony corals. Also there are several other ways you can go to make sure your alk/calc numbers are good.

I will add more later.

 

[jgraz]

Just want to expand on what the others said.
I'll echo what was said above about the 120 gal. I have a 90gal and regret not getting the 120 for the extra 6".
Lighting: Don't limit yourself to only the ATI if you decide to go with T5. Tek and Aquatic Life make some excellent fixtures that are more then capable of growing whatever you want. If you go with a tank that has a 24" width I would say that 8 bulbs are a minimum 6 just ain't gonna cut it.IMO
I chose dosing calcium and alkilinity as opposed to a calcium reactor. So thats another way to go.
Chiller: ATM I don't run one. I may change that based on how things go. My current tank has been running since the middle of last summer and I've only run into one time where a chiller would have been welcomed. Though I've heard that with one the temp in the tank are kept very stable.

I highly recommend keeping an eye on the deals thread here to find some good prices on used equipment. Also get yourself up on Reef Central and Manhatten Reefs there is a ton of stuff for sale out there. Though with a budget of $4k you could really put together something special. And like I said before don't fear the PVC. Its your friend

 

[Fish Brain]

+1 on the 120G.

I just upgraded from a 65 to a 120 and I love the dimensions of the new tank.

 

[MikeF1986]

Thanks for all the feedback! Guess I better find the tank and sump!

 

[mnat]

Check around with our sponsors, I know several have some great prices on tanks. Unfortunately most are not in cherry hill. But Trop and AO generally have very very competitive prices on tanks. I am sure one of the southerners down there will chime in with the best options. Also, click on the membership link on the top of the page, fill out the app and paypal over the money. Once you are a member we have a forum where we buy and sell equipment among family.

 

[jgraz]

Hidden reef in pa generally has decent prices on aquarium. Fish factory will usually match the price but you have to get ahold of the owner who is usually at the used equipment shop. But the tropiquarium is gonna be your best bang for the buck as far as the aquarium goes.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Heya Mike,
I grew up in Cherry Hill and have some relatives that still live in the area. I have a cousin who lives right on Abington (the guy with the yellow Lamborghini ) and I'm around there pretty often so if you ever need help with setup or whatever once you get rollin'... send me a PM.

I think most of your questions have been answered so far so not much else to say except to throw a couple of my opinions your way:

1. 120G is a perfect size. I started with a 75g (48x18x21) and although it was a good size, I elected to upgrade to a 120g due to the extra width and height. My 75g is stuffed with LR and corals and some of my SPS are growing out of the water. I wish I started with the wider/taller tank.

2. I vote for LED's. Even though they may appear to be "over-doing" it, trust me when I tell you that once you start going you're going to want to dabble in some of the harder corals at some point. Although you can do just fine with T-5's, the LED's are actually more economical in the long run due to not having to buy new bulbs every year... also that's one less thing to worry about maintenance-wise and you admittedly "struggle changing light bulbs" so this will solve that problem.

2a. LED's come in 3 different types: Non-dimmable, dimmable, and controllable. Non-dimmables are usually cheapest because you only have on/off switches. It's either on at 100% or off (0%). Dimmable are slightly more expensive but they come with a dimmer switch as well as the on/off. This allows you to choose the brightness (intensity) of your LED's. These are nice, but you have to manually turn a knob to pick your intensity settings. Then we have the controllable types. These are usually the most expensive, but have more features that you may prefer. The dimming control can be automated either by an included control panel where you can set up start/stop times as well as intensity settings via the controller (most have preset sunrise/sunset programs that are easy to use)... but there are also others that you can control via your aquarium controller (Apex, Reef Keeper, Reef Angel, etc.) where you can not only have the sunrise/sunset automated, but you can (in some cases, with the right equipment) have the controller monitor things like temperature to also automatically turn off your lights... or even give you the ability to control them remotely over the internet or phone app. It all depends on how "convenient" you're looking to make them.

2b. With T-5's or MH lighting, you don't have any dimming control so the best you can do is automate when the actinics or daylights come on or off.

3. Auto topoff is a must. You want something to keep your sump level stable while you're away for a couple reasons: 1. so that your salinity levels stay even and 2. so that your return section of your sump doesn't get low enough to run your pump dry.

4. You mentioned phos ban. This is a material that you put into a reactor that helps to remove phosphates from your system. It's certainly not something you need in the beginning because you shouldn't have phosphate levels to worry about in the early stages. Also note that there are other options to this like macro algae in the refugium, algae scrubber systems, and other materials to put in reactors like carbon/gfo and/or biopellets.

Anyway, hope that helps. Like I said, once you get going if you need a hand, hit me up.

 

[fatoldsun]

Coincidence - I grew up 'in' Abington (Pa) and I hope to have a a Lamborghini one day (color TBD). [George - I think I saw your cousin at the maple shade custard stand back in the fall. I was drooling over the car].
Kidding aside, welcome. I'm in south jersey (Moorestown) and if you have the means (and permission) go bigger. I have a 90 and it will take me years to convince my wife to allow an upgrade. The list of home improvement projects that she has set as a prerequisite alone will take me 3-4 years.... Get the 120. . Good luck. I'm close so don't be afraid to ask if you need help getting started.

 

[jgraz]

2. I vote for LED's. Even though they may appear to be "over-doing" it, trust me when I tell you that once you start going you're going to want to dabble in some of the harder corals at some point. Although you can do just fine with T-5's, the LED's are actually more economical in the long run due to not having to buy new bulbs every year... also that's one less thing to worry about maintenance-wise and you admittedly "struggle changing light bulbs" so this will solve that problem.

To be a little more fair to T5's they don't just do "fine" They are a great light sorce fully capable of growing anything. Can you tell i have/like T5's. But yes LED's don't need bulb changes. However the LED does have a lifespan and there is some dispute what that is.

2b. With T-5's or MH lighting, you don't have any dimming control so the best you can do is automate when the actinics or daylights come on or off.

T5 and Metal Halide lighting both can be dimmed with the proper ballast

Just my two cents

 

[MikeF1986]

Thanks all, I'm sure I'm going to have a ton of questions regarding plumbing when I get there. Originally, I was considering going with the Red Sea Max S series, but now I think I'm leaning towards building the system. I am going to sign up for the membership and start with the tank, then sump.

One question regarding LED, is the savings to th electric bill noticeable vs other options? My goal is to keep that in check throughout the process.

I have a ton more questions regarding RODI and ATO, but one step at a time.....

 

[jgraz]

LED uses less power to produce equal output

 

[mnat]

LEDs vs halide absolutely you will see the difference in electric usage. Also they put out less heat which might negate your chiller which is an energy hog as well.

 

[MikeF1986]

OK, so I almost feel bad that there is an entire thread dedicated to helping me, I'm definitely taken back by all the interest and support. Much appreciated! I signed up and sent in the dues, I'm just waiting for the approval...hopefully no hazing.

I've done some research on two sumps that I have interest in, I decided not to build my own for a few reasons. The Trigger Elite 36" and the Aqueon Model 4...

With lighting I will invest in LED as I know myself and my obsession will only develop, the reduced heat, and energy savings.

I think I'm going with the hybrid fuge/skimmer system as well....

Tank, definitely going 120....48" w...I figure this should be efficient for most fish species and my mako shark

Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

[jgraz]

Ummmmmmm

Mako shark?

 

[MikeF1986]

Haha j/k

 

[mnat]

A three foot sump will give you some nice room in the stand to put an ATO container and some other things.

 

[iTzJu]

A three foot sump will give you some nice room in the stand to put an ATO container and some other things.

Definitely agree on this, the exact reason why I downgraded my sump from a 30 long to a 20 long. I needed more room for media reactors, dosers, etc.. Definitely keep that in mind when choosing the size of your sump.

 

[MikeF1986]

Hi guys,

I was recently given the advice to pick my skimmer prior to picking the sump. I am definitely going with a 120 display, with a 36" trigger or aqueon sump. I know the trigger can harbor the skimmer in the first stage but requires it be elevated, whereas the aqueon requires the skimmer be located in the 3rd stage but can sit directly on the sump floor. I would like to go with a Reef Octopus, but as to the model I am unsure and looking for advice! Thanks guys!