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Flow Rate Help!!!

Y

yuyiboy

Hello Guys!!
I'm brand new to this forum and have gotten a lot of great info so far.
I have had my 28 gallon tank for 2 years, and that was an experiment gone bad from day one.
I just jumped into reefing, thinking a reef was just as simple as Fresh water. :'(
2 years later I can say.... WHAT WAS WRONG WITH ME!!!
Anyway; I have learned and lost a lot, and after a horrible accident that left my tank all but dead, After it finally looked great!!
I have decided to reset it and start from scratch with the new knowledge I have gotten over time.
I can't afford to spend a lot of money on this, so I will try and re-use as much of what I have, and I just love to DIY!!! ;)
I just can't look at the tank like that anymore. :-[ :'(
I sold or gave away all kinds of stock, because I couldn't bear having them go trough a reset, and the what ifs??
I never did have a lot of fish in the tank, but I did lose some of my faves. (they're like kids after a while) :(
The rest have a GREAT home now, and I can concentrate on future new friends.
I keept my buddy "BLUE" and put him in a PICO. He has survived EVERYTHING I have done to him :D ;) (more on him in the future)

Anyway I had a Canister filter on that 28 and would like to go with a sump, but can't drill the tank.
So I will be going with a HOB overflow, I can't afford to buy new equipment or a new tank that I can drill.
I would have loved to go bigger that the 28 gallon, but the mortgage comes first. :-\ ;D
My question is.... How do I pick an overflow and a pump that don't fight each other??
Like too much pump, not enough overflow, FLOOD!!! CASCADES!! :eek:
What is the ration of GPH on the overflow to GPH on return pump??
Should they match?? should I add a "what is the name of that faucet thing, attached to the plumbing to control flow???"
Ball...something. to the return line?
I'm very confused about the flow rate.
I would also like to know what are the pumps that you guys like or recommend I use ?(BRAND)
NOT the best or the worst. A pump that is a good pump for the money,
not the DREAM PUMP that we know is great!....I hear a lot about MAG Pumps??? Are they good??
and what size as to not have to upgrade if I go bigger later w/ drilled tank. (that is just wishful thinking for now)
WHEW!!
Sorry for the long post but wanted to tell you a bit about me ;D
I hope to keep getting great info from you guys, and thank you for having such a great place to talk about my "Addiction" ;D

Thanks in advance for any help u guys can give me :D
Yuyiboy
Jackson, NJ
 
Hawkeye

Hawkeye

yuyiboy said:
Hello Guys!!
My question is.... How do I pick an overflow and a pump that don't fight each other??
Like too much pump, not enough overflow, FLOOD!!! CASCADES!! :eek:
What is the ration of GPH on the overflow to GPH on return pump??
Should they match?? should I add a "what is the name of that faucet thing, attached to the plumbing to control flow???"
Ball...something. to the return line?
....I hear a lot about MAG Pumps??? Are they good??
and what size as to not have to upgrade if I go bigger later w/ drilled tank. (that is just wishful thinking for now)
Thanks in advance for any help u guys can give me :D
Yuyiboy
Jackson, NJ
Click to expand...

Welcome to NJRC

The pump needs to be rated to match whatever your overflow can handle. Keep in mind a pump will lose gph the further the pump is from the tank. This is known as "head loss". I'm not a fan of HOB overflows but they should typically say how much flow it can handle.

If you have a ball valve/true union valve - you could t' off the return so that not so much of it goes back up into the tank.

Frankly in my opinion - accidents happen - floods happen - the question is- how to reduce the chance and respond. I generally steer people to getting tanks that have a built-in-overflow, or drilling holes in the back of the tank (as long as the glass is not tempered) to create one.
 
JohnS_323

JohnS_323

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Hi neighbor and welcome to NJRC! We live in Jackson too.

The best way to control return flow to a display tank is how Phil suggested. Put a Tee on the outflow from your pump. Have one leg return to the sump and the other return to your display. Put a ball valve on the leg that returns to the sump and use that to control how much flow is being sent to the display. You can tweak the flow to get it just right so that the drain is quiet and able to keep up with the amount of water flowing through the system. It works pretty well.

If you don't want to go that route, you could probably get away with using a Mag7 with a standard HOB overflow box. That's how I have the system in my bedroom setup. The 7 sends enough flow to keep things quiet and the overflow box has no problem keeping up.

Good luck and if you ever want to swing by to check out a few different plumbing ideas, let me know. I return water to sumps in just about every conceivable manner!
 
D

DaveK

Since you have a 28 gal tank, and are on a limited budget, I recommend that you forget about a sump, and get a decent hang on tank skinner and filter. Your old canister filter could also be used.
 
Y

yuyiboy

JohnS_323 said:
The best way to control return flow to a display tank is how Phil suggested. Put a Tee on the outflow from your pump. Have one leg return to the sump and the other return to your display. Put a ball valve on the leg that returns to the sump and use that to control how much flow is being sent to the display. You can tweak the flow to get it just right so that the drain is quiet and able to keep up with the amount of water flowing through the system. It works pretty well.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the welcome guys!! ;D
John... You said a T on the outflow?? one leg going to the sump and one to the tank?
Well the pump would be the last part of the sump before the tank wouldn't it?? ???

I mean.... Overflow-pipe-sump-pump-pipe-tank ???
and YES!!...a Ball valve IS the word I was looking for Phil!! ;D thanks
Now I have a couple of power heads and skimmer pumps and things but was thinking of something that would be more powerful.
I think the Mag 7 is an online or submersible right?? Why I'm asking that I should just look it up ::) :)
Can the pumps be throttled back to adjust flow or is it better to control just the overflow??
I told you I have a lot of questions ;D
Thank you guys.
And I would love to see your set-up John....and take all your ideas!!! ;D LOL
I have not met anyone on the net that lives close to me,
that is why this place is great!!
 
Y

yuyiboy

DaveK said:
Since you have a 28 gal tank, and are on a limited budget, I recommend that you forget about a sump, and get a decent hang on tank skinner and filter. Your old canister filter could also be used.
Click to expand...

Hi Dave;
What I really want is to get rid of all the ugly "Stuff" in the tank.
I have the HOB skimmer, and canister, and mechanical filter, an few other things.
But I want to increase the volume of water, and be able to reduce bubbles and add extra live rock and that kind of stuff you know? The canister just becomes a Nitrate trap so I just add live rock to it. (I'm using it in the pico with Blue"
It's rated for 60 or 70 gallons and it's on a 6 gallon!!! ;D ;D LOL
I'm not a big fan of HOB overflows but I think my tank is tempered, at least this way I get the benefits and only have the overflow to look at and maybe some small power heads. "hidden" ;)
Thank you for the response.... you guys are fast. :)
Keep the suggestions coming. ;D
 
Hawkeye

Hawkeye

yuyiboy said:
John... You said a T on the outflow?? one leg going to the sump and one to the tank?
Click to expand...

yes - so if you had a mag 7 (this pump works best in a sump) - the pump would pull water from your sump, and push the water up a pipe to your display tank.

Now if the mag 7 is too powerful, then it will pump more water than the overflow can send down.

To fix this, you can T it so that one leg goes BACK to the sump and the rest goes to the display.

The one going back to the sump can be used for other media reactors...or just to your refugium.
 
Y

yuyiboy

OH I SEE!!!
You are basically "re-sumping" part of the water to give it more time to get to the pump. Is that it??
Very Clever ;D
That saves in having to replace or mod a lot of things. How many times should the pump be turning over the tank?? I read a lot of conflicting numbers, but want to know, what works for you guys?
When I had my canister rated for @60 GPH on the 28 that was about 2x PH right? well I think I need more that that, even if things didn't look that bad.
looking back on it after learning more..... It seems 2x isn't nearly enough. Maybe that is why my tank didn't really ever get over things.

Great info

Thanks Phil!! ;D
 
Y

yuyiboy

Hi Guys...... I have been trying to post pics But can't seen to upload them.
They are the right size and everything.
I will just wait and c if it is a glitch in the forum.

I hope I didn't Multiple post them by hitting post. If I did moderator please remove and I'm sorry.

Will try later.
 
Y

yuyiboy

Pictures

[size=10pt][size=10pt]OK, Lets try this again...[/size][/size]
Here are some pictures of the "SOCK" incident. :'(
The first one is the BEFORE pic, the rest are after.

TankBeforeSock.jpg

After3.jpg


After2.jpg

After1.jpg



[[size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]size=10pt][size=10pt][size=10pt]And here are a couple of pictures of the world's famous "BLUE" in his nano or pico. ;D


[/size][/size][/size]
[/size][/size][/size]
IM000027.jpg

IM000024.jpg


IM000029.jpg


IM000026.jpg


IM000025.jpg
 
Hawkeye

Hawkeye

nice job figuring out the pics! the before was really nice...i'm sorry to see the aftermath.

yuyiboy said:
That saves in having to replace or mod a lot of things. How many times should the pump be turning over the tank?? I read a lot of conflicting numbers, but want to know, what works for you guys?
Click to expand...

People will give you different numbers because this is one of those things where there isn't a "right" answer. I've seen tank of the month threads with very slow flow thru the sump - and I've seen just the opposite. The only "wrong" thing might be if your skimmer is rated at say 200gph, and you set up a Mag 7 - then you would be pushing the water back into the display BEFORE the skimmer had a chance to act on it. Ideally the skimmer gph is higher than the return pump.

Hope that makes sense.
 
Y

yuyiboy

yuyiboy said:
The only "wrong" thing might be if your skimmer is rated at say 200gph, and you set up a Mag 7 - then you would be pushing the water back into the display BEFORE the skimmer had a chance to act on it. Ideally the skimmer gph is higher than the return pump.

Hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...

It definitely makes complete sense ;D
I will have to take into account ALL the different "flows" to make sure they can work together and not against each other.
Thanks about the pics..... Because of the aftermath is the reason I need to do this. I can't look at it like that and just wait.

Thanks again Phil :)
 
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