Is there any way this can work? (clown/stocking Q)

[fatoldsun]

Or am I crazy?

I have a relatively newly established 90g with a GSM Clown – she’s kind of a brute at about 3.5-4” - she is very friendly yet very protective of her RBTA. There is another RBTA in the tank – a clone/split and it is situated about 6-8” away - she largely ignores the clone – she feeds and protects hers and will actually steal food from the clone that I spot feed and give it to “hers” – so the question is, I am adding a mated pair of false percs F:2.5” and M:1.5” - my kids have been asking for a “Nemo” since I set the tank up and I sort of wagered my future on the kids wishes – I convinced my wife that we could afford this “hobby” because it would be great for the kids to grow up with the tank in the house - so I have to try and accommodate their one wish (well, 2 wishes, but Dori is resolved b/c the Hippo Tang is a happy inhabitant) so I think if the kids/wife had their way the percs would stay and the beautiful and healthy Maroon would be looking for new accommodations – simply because 2 4 year olds don’t understand the concept of natural selection, survival of the fittest and familial hierarchy…

 

[downbeach]

GSM's are very protective/aggressive, so probably not going to be good tank mates.

 

[steamman]

+1 Like downbeach said.

If you are going to try that you should add them in a vessel that hangs in the tank. Let the fish see each other but not be able to interact physically. You should be able to get a sense of if it will work. I actually have raised Ocellaris and GSM together. They were young fish. No adults. I have never tried to add a smaller pair to a tank with such a large female in an established environment. Although I was considering adding a pair of Ocellaris to a tank with an established very large pair of breeding GSM's.

 

[fatoldsun]

Thanks guys - I'm nervous about it - I planned to introduce them slowly - using a cage for a while - what's another cage in my tank? I have one of those small breeder tanks but I think that may be too small for the two of them - I may have to make something

 

[redfishbluefish]

I attempted to add a maroon to my 90 gallon tank that had a mated and established pair of clowns, thinking that the maroon would be the “outsider” coming into an established tank. The fish hit the water and immediately and brutally started attacking the two clowns. I spent the next five hours protecting the two clowns while trying to net the devil maroon. I had nets around the two clowns, who continued to attempt to hide in the anemone while using yet another net to catch the maroon. I ended up having to pull out half my rock to eventually catch the little bugger. In the mean while, I had bumped by hands into zoas and palys trying to net the maroon and ended up in bed that night and part of the following day with that toxic malaise feeling, and sores on my hands. Lesson learned.....with maroons anyway. Shortly thereafter I picked up a neon velvet damsel (I'm a slow learner). Ended up having to catch that devil fish as well!

I would NOT add clowns to a tank that had a maroon....the maroon will rip the clowns apart.


EDIT TO ADD: I was typing while Steamman and Fat responded. The suggestion about the cage or bottle thing is the only way I would consider testing the waters. Even with doing that, if and when you introduce the fish into the tank, it could still be a crap-shoot.

 

[fatoldsun]

I attempted to add a maroon to my 90 gallon tank that had a mated and established pair of clowns, thinking that the maroon would be the “outsider” coming into an established tank. The fish hit the water and immediately and brutally started attacking the two clowns. I spent the next five hours protecting the two clowns while trying to net the devil maroon. I had nets around the two clowns, who continued to attempt to hide in the anemone while using yet another net to catch the maroon. I ended up having to pull out half my rock to eventually catch the little bugger. In the mean while, I had bumped by hands into zoas and palys trying to net the maroon and ended up in bed that night and part of the following day with that toxic malaise feeling, and sores on my hands. Lesson learned.....with maroons anyway. Shortly thereafter I picked up a neon velvet damsel (I'm a slow learner). Ended up having to catch that devil fish as well!

I would NOT add clowns to a tank that had a maroon....the maroon will rip the clowns apart.

well I did ask - I guess I may have to set up a small nano for the clowns if they're time in the cage makes it clear that they'll be at risk

 

[redfishbluefish]

Dave, put them in your sump. I think you have a sump similar to the one I have....a 40 breeder. My sump actually has a clown in it as well. The door to my stand is actually cut out to expose this section of the sump:

 

[fatoldsun]

Dave, put them in your sump. I think you have a sump similar to the one I have....a 40 breeder. My sump actually has a clown in it as well. The door to my stand is actually cut out to expose this section of the sump:

Paul - thats a GREAT idea, thanks - everyone's happy - the kids are happy, the fish are "safe" - I guess I just have to decide which will get the "fuge" home. Do you think I'd be able to "keep" the RBTA clone down there? The light is a plain old CFL with a decent color temp but nothing particularly fancy

 

[steamman]

The clowns don't need an anemone to live. I wouldn't bother unless they were wild caught clowns. Just more problems with lighting.

Oh, your kids were probably looking for the interaction right?

 

[fatoldsun]

The clowns don't need an anemone to live. I wouldn't bother unless they were wild caught clowns. Just more problems with lighting.

Oh, your kids were probably looking for the interaction right?

I'm not sure at 4 years old they know to look for the interaction - and I've never seen the movie so I can't say what I think they expect - anyway, I know the Nem's not needed but since it split I figured if it would be ok with the weaker lighting which even ended up in the fuge would be happier with the accommodations
anyway, I think if they seem to be afetr each other after a week or so in the cage I will go with Paul's suggestion and my girls will just have to open the door to get a glimpse - who knows, maybe the pair would breed down there.... not that I'd be able to raise them like you have - I always marvel at how you've done that

 

[steamman]

Good luck with the new clowns. Keep us posted.

You can always add more light if you need to your sump. Prices are really coming down on led's recently. A small fixture with some good optics could work if your CFL's don't seem like they are going to cut it. I have kept RBTA's under CFL spot lamps. They were placed as close as I could put them to the nem. I have never kept a nem long term under those lights.

As far as the breeding goes it really isn't that glamorous. It is a lot of work but it's rewarding. Not financially. Maybe I can turn a buck someday if some of the higher end fish start to produce.

 

[fatoldsun]

Well. So much for an agreement and someone's word. Guess it was for the best but the fish were gone before my wife got home from work.

 

[twisted]

If u want something for your sump clowns put so low light palays, shrooms or gsp.... Mine love gsp and pretty much anything that extends. I have a pair of true percs that host my nems and let my false host everything else


Twisteds 180 Reef

 

[TanksNStuff]

Unfortunately, he didn't get the clowns.

However, if you ever end up with a pair and would like some GSP so you can have them host in the fuge... I might be able to give you some Dave. That's assuming I can peel it off the bottom of the rock it's growing on. No charge as I was planning on trimming it back soon and tossing anyway.

 

[Hawkeye]

As paul mentioned - the box trick is a good idea but you really don't know what will happen until the fish are interacting. For me it did not work.

I have a pair of breeding false percula (i think, they may be just a cross between true percs and false) clowns and thought maybe if I added enough juveniles they would be okay with it. Since i had 3 captive bred clowns left - and no immediate buyers, I decided to add the 3 into a breeder box, and place into my 120 for the mommy to inspect. The female actually appeared fine - albeit I don't know if she recognized her own grown up kids. What I did not expect was the male clown to chase, and even more unexpectedly, one of the 3 in the breeder box turned into a terror after adding into the display (and chased it's fellow siblings).

Long story short, I had 5 clowns in the tank. 4 chased 1. I removed 1 (gave to my dad). Then 3 chased 1. I removed that one (sold it). Now I just have the 3. The mated established pair stay in their nem and always chase the other out - so the 3rd one is just a spare tire hanging out nearby. It does rush into the nem when the others are tending to the eggs. The nem is plenty big to fit more than 3 clowns...but that's just the way it is.

Maroon clowns are some of the toughest nuts in the fish tank. I've heard of people cleaning tanks with their bare arms and having the maroon bite them to cause some pain.

Anyways - i know you don't have the clown situation now - but just food for thought. I've heard of different species of clowns sharing one tank - but it tends to be situational (e.g. large tank, each set of clowns in one end of the tank).

 

[fatoldsun]

WAIT GEORGE. WAIT. Don't throw anything away. One reefer's trash is another's treasure. Seriously tho if you still have it when I'm down for the cap I'm always looking for easy stuff to add.
Phil
Thanks for the guidance. I'd love to add a pair of false percs but as my wife has said Marlena (the GSMC) is part of the family and as long as she's "with us", she has dibs on my lil' 90. I'll have to look to add some other stuff and maybe a nano down the road... My sump's likely large enough but not sure it would be worth seeking out the pair. If I had them its a reasonable solution to keep them safe but not worth seeking them out. And Marlena will chase my hand but she still knows who's boss

 

[Hawkeye]

You could conceivably flood the tank with percs. I mean like, have a single maroon and then like 15 percs. You will suffer a loss here and there but the principle behind this is simple - too many targets for one fish to chase.

The only economical way you could do this is perhaps to get all 15 from a breeder. Otherwise even the cheapest LFS sells them for like $10 a pop so you'd be out $150 for that many. If I were still breeding i'd give him to you for a song...(and maybe a dance)...hahaha.

But i'm just painting an extreme picture. That many clowns makes a tank every day knock out fights...sort like when you go to the LFS and see a tank full of damsels. Too many for them to single out (but eventually they will).

The easier course of action would be a fish trap, and let marlena move to the sump. =)

 

[fatoldsun]

15 clowns??? Interesting. Love the creative 'out of the box' thinking.
Oh and for what its worth - you'll need to take my word here - you definitely DON'T want me singing OR dancing. it's just not something you can undo later. You can't un-see that

 

[steamman]

IMHO the addition of a large number of clowns is not an option. Tang policeEventually they will kill each other off while they fight for dominance amongst themselves. I believe using that approach will have a very bad outcome. Hawkeye, I realize you were just trying to solve an unsolvable problem here but don't think it will work out well.

I raise clownfish and eventually if they are in a tank long enough in a group they will kill and maim each other until only a couple are left. It happens with GSM's almost from the time they get stripes and it happens with Ocellaris when they get a bit larger. At least that is how it worked in my grow out tanks.

Personally, I have seen less aggression between conspecific clowns than with clowns of the same species. This is at least while they were still sub adults. I have co cultured clown species and have seen no real aggression between the two species. That is unless they get caught up in a fish fighting frenzy and it is just the heat of the moment. That chasing or fight does not last long because the aggressor usually realizes it is attacking the wrong fish.

I have seen a pair of GSM's spawning in the same tank kept with a pair of spawning Ocellaris that had a third submissive family member in the hierarchy. This was accomplished in a large aquarium. Each pair had their own side of the tank with their own host anemone.

In conclusion the whole idea of adding a pair or a school of Ocellaris to a smaller tank with an established large GSM is most likely going to end badly. It is enough to make little girls cry .

 

[fatoldsun]

Well now, we can't have any crying little girls so that solution is shelved.