raising CA using two-part solution or equivalent

[chase33]

Question for those using or have used the two-part solution or an equivalent. What do you use to add the solutions to your tank. I want to know the following:

1. The equipment you use such as litermeter III (or manual dosing)
2. Pros and cons of the equipment
3. If starting over would you take same approach? Why/why not.
4. Do you do anything else to raise/ maintain CA levels (CA reactor) or to supplement your doser such as a controller?
5. Any additional ocmments advice

I looked at the Litermeter III and thought it was expensive especially since an additional pump is needed to pump both the CA and Alk portions of the solution (it only comes with one pump).

 

[erid]

I have been using two part solutions since I started my tank in November. In the beginning I was using it through cycling and with no corals, my calcium was too high, so I simply stopped using it until I had the correct parameters.

Since then It has been working like a charm for me. If my Cal, or Mg, or Ak falls, I simply use the liquid form of the required element or a AK buffer. The two part solution will maintain levels once you have them set.
However if you are SPS dominant you may want to use Kalkwasser and drip with a kent doser bottle.

All of the two part solutions work the same for me. I used Calix max (warner marine), Kent CB, and now Bi-ionic.

Currently:
Cal is 450ppm
Mg 1400
Ak 11.2


Erik

 

[blange3]

I was dosing 150 ml daily of Randy's Two part formulas in my 75 and 30 ml on my 55.

I did it manually. On the 75 I used airline tubing and dripped. On the 55 I used the little cups that come with B-Ionic.

I was considering a dosing pump, but since have abandoned 2-part.

I have doubled the amount of kalk in my kalk drip and now do weekly 15 % waterchanges.

In the long run I find it less work and expense. The corals seem happier as well.

In addition to maintaining my CA/ALK, I figure I'm getting better replenishment on trace elements and more nutrient export, although my nitrates have always been zero.

 

[erid]

And oh, I just measure it manually. Wasn't aware that there was any other way. I just keep it simple.

Erik

 

[mladencovic]

I have been manually dosing both B-Ionic and Kent two parts for last several months. Since I can dose them only once or twice a day, this has become a problem since 45-60ml of each that I am dosing daily to my 75 gal tank, is not nearly enough and dosing more at the same time will severely disturb my chemical balance. When adding larger quantities, it is imperative to add them in smaller parts throughout the day and not all at once. That is why am right now switching both to automatic mode and switching to Two Part Solution's chemical which are much less expensive.

To me, Litermeter III is just a fancy timer connected to one peristaltic pump with controllers to two more pumps. I am planing to use two of these http://www.twopartsolution.com/inde...id=237&zenid=32af70b748171c138f331999fff52c62 .

You don't have to go with peristaltic pumps but they are the best for exact control of the dosing because of their small and very precise flow. You could use other methods as well. You could use ESV's doser:

http://www.dtpetsupplies.com/catalo.../ESV-B-Ionic-Doser-Pump-2-dosers-in-one-unit/

which is based on the following principle:

http://www.esvco.com/prod9.html

and which you can easily make by yourself like this:

http://ozreef.org/diy_plans/additives/trace_element_doser.html

I am also dosink Kalk, but that is not nearly enough for my tank's requirements as well.

 

[mladencovic]

...
I was considering a dosing pump, but since have abandoned 2-part.

I have doubled the amount of kalk in my kalk drip and now do weekly 15 % waterchanges.

In the long run I find it less work and expense. The corals seem happier as well.

In addition to maintaining my CA/ALK, I figure I'm getting better replenishment on trace elements and more nutrient export, although my nitrates have always been zero.

Abandoned it in favor of only Kalk? No CO2 reactor? Is your tank have on hard corals? My Kalk is tied to my top-off and it replenishes only 5ppm of Ca per daily, while my corals would "eat" at least 20-30ppm daily.

 

[Carlo]

I use a couple of cheap Aqualifter pumps (about $12 each and do 3 gph) connected to a timer. At the end of the airline tubing I have a valve to slow down the flow to a drip. The other end of the pump is in a bucket but could be a 2 liter soda bottle or any other container.

With only a slow drip I can adjust the timer to help control the amount of solution added over time (never to much at one time). I've also found you can dilute the solution down with more RO/DI water which also helps "spread" out the dose.

Would I do it again? Yes, it's cheap and works well. Not the most elegant looking solution but works.

I do use other methods also but could just as well only use this method.

Carlo

 

[pgordemer]

I dose Two-Part using the premeasured kits from twopartsolution.com

I am doing around 30ML a day, since it is such a small amount for now, I just manually add them in the morning, with 10 minutes between each additive.

Once I get to about 45 or more, I will use a medical peristalic pump that has been modified to drip two containers at once. http://www.innovativeaquatics.com/products/nautilis2.html

 

[blange3]

...
I was considering a dosing pump, but since have abandoned 2-part.

I have doubled the amount of kalk in my kalk drip and now do weekly 15 % waterchanges.

In the long run I find it less work and expense. The corals seem happier as well.

In addition to maintaining my CA/ALK, I figure I'm getting better replenishment on trace elements and more nutrient export, although my nitrates have always been zero.

Abandoned it in favor of only Kalk? No CO2 reactor? Is your tank have on hard corals? My Kalk is tied to my top-off and it replenishes only 5ppm of Ca per daily, while my corals would "eat" at least 20-30ppm daily.

Not only Kalk, but increased water changes. On the 75 I'm changing 10-15 gallons every week.

I'll be changing tonight and testing my levels. So far since I switched to this method CA has run about 430, Alk 2.75.

I have mostly LPS and some caps and a milli. It is a fairly full, mature, thriving tank.

 

[Subliminal]

I put 2 Lil Fishies 2 part right into my top off water. So for it's been working great. Just bought a jbj ATO today, so that should make it even better!

 

[Carlo]

Subliminal, It's generally not a good idea to mix the two in the same water. Most makers of two part solutions will generally tell you not to mix the two together but to dose them separately so you don't get the two working against each other and/or causing precipitation of Ca. Since the water will have a very high Alk level, the amount of Calcium that can be added before it's supersaturated is a lot lower. Once it's super saturated it will precipitate.

Sometimes depending on your levels you can get away with it especially when you're not dosing a lot, but it's generally not recommended.

Carlo

 

[Subliminal]

Good to know, Carlo....I always figured there was a reason for having the two seperate, but didn't really research it at all to find out why.

 

[chase33]

Thanks for all of the responses. This was great.

mladencovic, I looked as the ESV system and see that after paying $149 you still needed to purchase the air pumps and other equipment ("Requires one dual output air pump or two single output air pumps and a digital timer with one minute intervals (not included)."). I thought that was ridiculous. Still cheaper than the Litermeter III but still costly. I also looked at Drews dosing pump and the need for two of those along with a timer seemed quite expensive. Still it was also cheaper than the Litermeter III but you still need to acquire a timer.
I also noticed that many of you also dose Kalk and I was going to ask why when you are already adding a two part solution and reading the information on twopartsolution.com regarding their system it made no mention of the need to also dose Kalk if also dosing the two part solution chemicals. I don't plan on dosing kalk, only the two part solution chemicals.

All-in-all I think I will purchase two AquaLifter pumps recommended by Carlo. Almost cannot go wrong for only $12 and for that price they are worth a look considering the cost in comparison to the others. These should allow me to dose the two part solution chemicals listed on twopartsolution.com (without the need to dose kalk too). I'll set them up on a controller to control the dosage.

Thanks to all as your information has been very helpful.

 

[pgordemer]

Here is an accurate and complete solution for automatic dosing of 2 part solution. Total cost is less than the 2 cheap single pumps with timers, etc.

http://www.innovativeaquatics.com/products/nautilis2.html

 

[mladencovic]

Thanks for all of the responses. This was great.

mladencovic, I looked as the ESV system and see that after paying $149 you still needed to purchase the air pumps and other equipment ("Requires one dual output air pump or two single output air pumps and a digital timer with one minute intervals (not included)."). I thought that was ridiculous. Still cheaper than the Litermeter III but still costly. I also looked at Drews dosing pump and the need for two of those along with a timer seemed quite expensive. Still it was also cheaper than the Litermeter III but you still need to acquire a timer.
I also noticed that many of you also dose Kalk and I was going to ask why when you are already adding a two part solution and reading the information on twopartsolution.com regarding their system it made no mention of the need to also dose Kalk if also dosing the two part solution chemicals. I don't plan on dosing kalk, only the two part solution chemicals.

All-in-all I think I will purchase two AquaLifter pumps recommended by Carlo. Almost cannot go wrong for only $12 and for that price they are worth a look considering the cost in comparison to the others. These should allow me to dose the two part solution chemicals listed on twopartsolution.com (without the need to dose kalk too). I'll set them up on a controller to control the dosage.

Thanks to all as your information has been very helpful.

ESV/DIY solution uses ONE AIR pump which costs only 10$ . You just split the air by T splitter. That is why the system is elegant. Agreed, ESV is overcharging for essentially nothing complicated and those small plastic dosers can be easily reproduced by a bit of air tubing and 2 air check valves. The whole DIY thing costs less then 20$. That 1 minute timer intervals is a nonsence, since once intial amount of the liquid from dispenser is displaced by air, your air pump can work continuosly for a longer period of time with no difference, so you can utilise those cheap home light timers which have reolution of more then 15 but cost only 5-6$ in Walmart The only problem I see with them is a bit messy part of priming the syphons.

I agree that solution with two peristaltic pumps (Drew's or any other available on the market for a bit more $) will be much more expensive (200$), but that gives you the ability to play with cool toys and design electronic controlers hooked to computer interface and monitors ;D (why do you think I want to do it that way - nerd in me is crying for it : )

Problem with Carlo's solution, which by the way is something that originally I though of using as well, and will be using it until I create the system with the peristaltic pumps, is that it works perfectly for HIS system which is 1,000 gal, and may not work well for my system which is only 100 gal. You see, the trick is that you need to add both parts in the aproximately same amounts. Now, you and I would have to make the restriction of the flow 10 times more precise then he. Any discrepancies in used volume in his system would be more easily noticable then in mine. You could argue that you can dilute your solution 10 times and then work from there, but then you are hitting the limits of your evaporated water. And once you start restricting your flow, clogging becomes the issue as well.

 

[blange3]

Thanks for all of the responses. This was great.

I also noticed that many of you also dose Kalk and I was going to ask why when you are already adding a two part solution and reading the information on two part solution.com regarding their system it made no mention of the need to also dose Kalk if also dosing the two part solution chemicals. I don't plan on dosing kalk, only the two part solution chemicals.


Thanks to all as your information has been very helpful.

I think the usual reason is we start with Kalk and when our balanced CA/Alk demand exceeds the ability of our Kalk drip process to replenish, we supplement with 2-part or move to a calcium reactor.

I stayed with the kalk instead of moving exclusively to 2-part as I have an automated topoff solution and as long as I'm adding water to replenish evaporation, I might as well add kalk and have some of my CA/Alk maintenance automated.

For me, I have been able to satisfy my demand by doubling my kalk mix strength using 2 tsp /gallon and doing weekly waterchanges. SPS keepers wouldn't be likely to use this method if they have a lot of stock with good growth.

Good luck with whatever system you choose. If I were in your shoes where I needed 2-part, I would probably pursue the less expensive dosing pumps, like the one Phil suggested.

 

[Carlo]

Problem with Carlo's solution, which by the way is something that originally I though of using as well, and will be using it until I create the system with the peristaltic pumps, is that it works perfectly for HIS system which is 1,000 gal, and may not work well for my system which is only 100 gal. You see, the trick is that you need to add both parts in the approximately same amounts. Now, you and I would have to make the restriction of the flow 10 times more precise then he. Any discrepancies in used volume in his system would be more easily noticable then in mine. You could argue that you can dilute your solution 10 times and then work from there, but then you are hitting the limits of your evaporated water. And once you start restricting your flow, clogging becomes the issue as well.

Nah, the Aqualifters will work on any size tank. You just restrict it to a drip every few seconds and then use a timer or controller to adjust the amount of time the solution is dosed. You can also dilute the solution too to extend your dose time (with any doser). I actually use 6 of these for dosing. I've got each aqualifter cut back to a drip every few seconds and use 3 for each part (6 total). I do this for redundancy more then anything else but have my system dosing about 22 hours a day.

Back before I moved I did the same thing on my 120 tank. I still used the same 6 pumps in the same way but dosed for a shorter period of time. With one pump for each part I could have easily stretched the dose out to all day. I prefer a drip every few seconds over something approaching a stream because it's much easier to control and allows you to space out the dosage over a wide period of time.

I'm using this on my 1300 system as well as a 12g nano. I wouldn't have recommended it to him if it was to large a dose for a smaller system. On my nano I dose for about 1.5 hours total a day spaced out (few minutes here and there). I'm using the same strength solution I use on my big system. I could dilute it and space the dose out more on the little guy but then I'd need to keep a different mix around which would just complicate things for me.

I haven't ever needed to clean the tubing or restrictor on any of the pumps. I think the pressure from the pump keeps it from clogging up.

There are definitely other ways to dose with dedicated dosers in the few hundred range but for a total of less then $25 and a couple of empty soda bottles it's pretty hard to top.

Carlo

 

[reeferwanabe]

So far I've been using bi-ionic but it 's not raising it enough so I used turbo cal. to get it up. the bi-ionic keeps it there.