It is supposed to be done that way according to the By-Laws. All organizations are run where the membership has the final say...not the BOD. The topics are supposed to be brought up for discussion and then voted on by the membership. The BOD really has no power unless it is something against the welfare of the organization. And you are missing the point...if the Membership votes to have a swap or attend RAP, then it is on the members to help make sure it happens. If no one volunteers to help, then the BOD let's it go down in flames and there is no one, but the members to blame. The club has never been run this way in all the years I have been around, but it was always supposed to be. The BOD cannot make decisions without a vote from the membership.
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Sales Forums
- Thread starter SeahorseKeeper
- Start date
It is supposed to be done that way according to the By-Laws. All organizations are run where the membership has the final say...not the BOD. The topics are supposed to be brought up for discussion and then voted on by the membership. The BOD really has no power unless it is something against the welfare of the organization. And you are missing the point...if the Membership votes to have a swap or attend RAP, then it is on the members to help make sure it happens. If no one volunteers to help, then the BOD let's it go down in flames and there is no one, but the members to blame. The club has never been run this way in all the years I have been around, but it was always supposed to be. The BOD cannot make decisions without a vote from the membership.
Once upon a time I was against the for sale thread. I got into heated discussions about people who ONLY sold on the site. Offered nothing and caused problems when something didn't go like it was supposed to in their eyes or in the eyes of their customers. I also promoted group buys(running them for years with help from Steve and others), had meetings at my house ( had a speaker that I setup on my own speak at one meeting), was on the Conservation committee, am a MOD, bla bla bla. Why am I saying all that?
Going back to my first point I might be wrong. With MACNA we were concerned that with the large income we could be audited and the BOD would be liable for the income for all of MACNA which was if I remember correctly 250K ish maybe it was more it was extremely successful in thanks to Phyl and John's leadership(I always feel I should give credit where it is due) among others. What is our income now maybe 5-10G a year......nothing really compared to the potential liability of MACNA at the time. The likelihood of someone from the IRS trying to take away our non profit status for 10 G of income, not profit, is unlikely. Plus the reason we were concerned was that the sale forum MIGHT be a problem for non profit status. The likelihood of this was small but the potential risk was high due to the income of MACNA. So the risk reward of the sale forum created problems tied directly to MACNA. (side note there should have been audits done but to my knowledge the last one was done at Ed's house a long time ago...yes that was a fun benefit of being a member haha)
I am willing to chip in my 12 bucks a year for if nothing else the potential that something good MIGHT come from it. But I agree with those that ask what does it really give me? For most it would be a for sale thread, and they would benefit more if it was open to all because they would be more likely to sell what they needed to sell, find a deal, or find an animal they are looking for if everyone could post so in reality they are getting less because it is only open to them!
Yes I might have to MOD again with vigor, there will be arguments, and I am sure idiots will get on my nerves. But for the community we might actually need it. I have changed my mind I think we should try and bring it back and see how it goes.
Going back to my first point I might be wrong. With MACNA we were concerned that with the large income we could be audited and the BOD would be liable for the income for all of MACNA which was if I remember correctly 250K ish maybe it was more it was extremely successful in thanks to Phyl and John's leadership(I always feel I should give credit where it is due) among others. What is our income now maybe 5-10G a year......nothing really compared to the potential liability of MACNA at the time. The likelihood of someone from the IRS trying to take away our non profit status for 10 G of income, not profit, is unlikely. Plus the reason we were concerned was that the sale forum MIGHT be a problem for non profit status. The likelihood of this was small but the potential risk was high due to the income of MACNA. So the risk reward of the sale forum created problems tied directly to MACNA. (side note there should have been audits done but to my knowledge the last one was done at Ed's house a long time ago...yes that was a fun benefit of being a member haha)
I am willing to chip in my 12 bucks a year for if nothing else the potential that something good MIGHT come from it. But I agree with those that ask what does it really give me? For most it would be a for sale thread, and they would benefit more if it was open to all because they would be more likely to sell what they needed to sell, find a deal, or find an animal they are looking for if everyone could post so in reality they are getting less because it is only open to them!
Yes I might have to MOD again with vigor, there will be arguments, and I am sure idiots will get on my nerves. But for the community we might actually need it. I have changed my mind I think we should try and bring it back and see how it goes.
I agree what ^ James said except with one more concern there might be a problem with.
If we do let people sell stuff, the BOD would have to keep an eye on how much people sell. There were people selling more things than our paid vendors were offering. So our paid vendors were not happy.
If we do let people sell stuff, the BOD would have to keep an eye on how much people sell. There were people selling more things than our paid vendors were offering. So our paid vendors were not happy.
Honestly...a way around that is that the For Sale Section is for Used gear being sold by individuals. No new items. That would also work with our mission of helping new people get into reefing to save the world's reefs.
I am just curious if the BOD is meeting weekly who is posting the meeting minutes on the site. As paid members we have the right to know what is going on. And it should be a final vote by the members. What brought us to the site where the Frag swaps the For Sale Forum and the club meetings. We have hosted many meetings at our home. We have also helped a lot of members on this site. The For Sale Forum and Swaps might bring some issues but it would also be a big boost for the club.
Let me get this straight, can I participate in threads for sales and trades if I pay a membership each year? The price is not too steep.
Oliver, a paid member will get access to the Sale forum.
Correct. Once you become a paid member you will gain access to the sale form and a couple others as well. You can put items up for sale or comment on items others are selling.
Thanks! Is that the case for the lowest level membership? If I get to move up there, I will be happy to become a paid member.
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Hey guys so I read all this and was debating on speaking since I'm sorta still new here and haven't had a chance to make it to a meeting yet but since I'm paid up for the year I figure I'd at least ask a question. When I first started here I didn't relies there was a paid side of things but I asked for help and a lot of paid members came to my aid with guidance and equipment and it was awesome I later found out about the paid side and joined right away I probably wouldn't have done that if it wasn't for the help I received as non paid .. I've seen numerous post on here about discussion about the benefits of being a member and mostly they have been talk about what we could do to make it better and have not come to action it seems to me that having a for sale side visable to non paid members is a benefit that we would be taking away from as other members described an already short list of benefits.. I think what the member ship would like as a benefit is open communication on club changes from the board to club members so they can have a voice in the matter .. if the board meets alone and the members only make a few meetings a year because of there schedule they feel left in the dark and powerless when a change is made. I'VE personally asked about club by-laws the administrative process and elections on a forum regarding those matters and no one from the board responded .. that to me was a little disappointing but we all have busy lives so I chalked it up to that but food for thought every club or organization I have been to the membership as a whole has to vote on a major change.. especially if they are paid members and board would make a change with out the members in a emergency situation.
Jeremy I don't recall seeing you requesting some of that information but could had easily over looked it (I been very busy with setting up an event in my home town). I been working with the other bod members on given more controls back to the club because this club should be ran by it's members. Not sure if you noticed but I posted meeting notes from the July meeting, July 2017 Public Meeting Minutes, I plan on making that a new thing for members who are unable to make it to the meeting to see what was talked about. About the Bi-laws, I need to make sure the copy I have is the correct copy and then I am going to work on getting that up on our website.
Thank you I didn't notice it but I'll check it out
Exactly this....I mentioned this a while back and had a discussion through PM about it. Every organization I have ever been a part of....all decisions came down to the membership. Not the 5-6 board members. If anyone would like to talk about it more, please PM me.
Or this thread
Picture Of The Month Committee (POTM)
While I agree members should have more of a say it just doesn't seem to happen when it's tried.
Picture Of The Month Committee (POTM)
While I agree members should have more of a say it just doesn't seem to happen when it's tried.
I was approached by a BOD member by PM. It is not my place to ignore that and bring it public.
Why is the answer always, "Then run for the BOD?" Not all of us have the time that it takes to be part of the BOD. I for one know how much time it takes...and I give everyone that does sit on the BOD a ton of credit for putting in the thankless hours. With that being said, that does not mean that other members do not have time to partake in ideation, discussion, and voting.
In my experience with clubs and organizations when a issue comes to light such as the one brought up in this thread the board would have a meeting about it discuss the options in depth and come up with a clear thought out report which is then brought to the members explaining the issue and the options at that point a motion is made to make what ever changes it is then voted on by the membership for the motion to pass there has to be greater then 55 % of the members who were present during the voting process in favor of or against any thing less then 55 % means that matter needs to be further reviewed and discussed and brought to the table again at another meeting. Absentee votes can be called in (should a member be unavailable to vote).
In most clubs or organizations the Executive board is in place not to have over all power to change, add, or make ect.. but to be the guiding voice of the club in such matters, yes they have official power in some aspects but it is the membership as a whole that governs. when members are required to pay dues this is even more important cause people don't want to feel like they paid for one aspect of the club they liked only to worry that someone on a the board my feel it needs to be changed and they are powerless to try and prevent it or at least give a voice to it
just food for thought based on my past experiences ..
In most clubs or organizations the Executive board is in place not to have over all power to change, add, or make ect.. but to be the guiding voice of the club in such matters, yes they have official power in some aspects but it is the membership as a whole that governs. when members are required to pay dues this is even more important cause people don't want to feel like they paid for one aspect of the club they liked only to worry that someone on a the board my feel it needs to be changed and they are powerless to try and prevent it or at least give a voice to it
just food for thought based on my past experiences ..
Lets me first state that this is just me speaking and not the board.
I agree that the club would benefit from open communication and the current board is working on that. I will admit its a slow processes and not going as smoothly as I thought it would had. Please note that to my understanding the only issues that could be consider done behind close doors was the decision on not opening the Sale Form but I don't totally agree it was done behind close doors. The Sale Form has been a hot topic for awhile not just recently. It was one topic that I seen (before I became a board member) discussed many times on this site. Like other topics of discussions I noticed that the debate (yes debate not a argument because both sides have points and respected each other's views) would dye down with no clear answers. When I joined the BOD one of the things I wanted to do was to provide that clear answer and not have it just sitting out there unanswered. We took those points during the debates and discussed them among ourselves. We then came up with the decision on not to open the form at this time due to other issues that the BOD felt was more pressing.
Yes many different organizations have different ways of addressing issues. To me it seems like this club was ran differently and I'm not sure if it was like that from day 1 or if it just went that way over time. As I stated I am working on trying to move to more member driven club but its a slow processes mainly when people are not willing to step up and help out in areas. There are a handful of members who do help out but it always the same select few.
Just as Kev posted. When I joined the club the POTM contest was dead. We got it going again because the members wanted it. During that time most of the drumming up was done by Kev or myself (with a member or two chiming in at time). When I became a BOD member I continued to 'run' the POTM but I was the only one drumming up the contest. I felt if the members wanted more power here is a baby set. Let them run the POTM because it was becoming too much work for me with everything else. I post the thread looking for people to run it. We got two people to run it and that just happened at the July meeting.
It takes small steps for change to happen. If you want a chance there no remote you need to get up and change it. I used that saying for me to go for a seat on the BOD here as well was helping to improve my town's soccer league. We all have busy lives it just how badly you want to see a change.
I think that these good ideas among members here and hope to see them to continue and developed into something to help improve this club.
I agree that the club would benefit from open communication and the current board is working on that. I will admit its a slow processes and not going as smoothly as I thought it would had. Please note that to my understanding the only issues that could be consider done behind close doors was the decision on not opening the Sale Form but I don't totally agree it was done behind close doors. The Sale Form has been a hot topic for awhile not just recently. It was one topic that I seen (before I became a board member) discussed many times on this site. Like other topics of discussions I noticed that the debate (yes debate not a argument because both sides have points and respected each other's views) would dye down with no clear answers. When I joined the BOD one of the things I wanted to do was to provide that clear answer and not have it just sitting out there unanswered. We took those points during the debates and discussed them among ourselves. We then came up with the decision on not to open the form at this time due to other issues that the BOD felt was more pressing.
Yes many different organizations have different ways of addressing issues. To me it seems like this club was ran differently and I'm not sure if it was like that from day 1 or if it just went that way over time. As I stated I am working on trying to move to more member driven club but its a slow processes mainly when people are not willing to step up and help out in areas. There are a handful of members who do help out but it always the same select few.
Just as Kev posted. When I joined the club the POTM contest was dead. We got it going again because the members wanted it. During that time most of the drumming up was done by Kev or myself (with a member or two chiming in at time). When I became a BOD member I continued to 'run' the POTM but I was the only one drumming up the contest. I felt if the members wanted more power here is a baby set. Let them run the POTM because it was becoming too much work for me with everything else. I post the thread looking for people to run it. We got two people to run it and that just happened at the July meeting.
It takes small steps for change to happen. If you want a chance there no remote you need to get up and change it. I used that saying for me to go for a seat on the BOD here as well was helping to improve my town's soccer league. We all have busy lives it just how badly you want to see a change.
I think that these good ideas among members here and hope to see them to continue and developed into something to help improve this club.