i ordered a fuge that is only 12in x 7in x 9 in...it comes with a rio powerhead...i was plannin on puttin small live rock frags in it and some macro algae to help with my high nitrate issue..im goin to put live sand in it about 3 inches and through some small nassarius snails to help keep the surface of the sand turned .. any suggestions
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what do u think about the intank fuges..
- Thread starter nanoguy
- Start date
I would like to hear peoples opinion on this also.
Which one is the depth/height? If it is 7" then I wouldn't go with DSB. It would leave you with only 3" of water and that it is too shallow for optimal growth of most usual macroalgae. It might be more efficient if you dedicate the most of the volume to the growth of macroalgae like chaeto and caulerpa, with some LR ruble for pods and other creatures.
Subliminal
NJRC Member
You can't hang it on the back?
The problem with intank fuges is that they are either too small to be useful (as is the case with larger tanks) or they take up valuable real estate, as is usually the case with nanos.
At least, so I've heard. I threw an aquafuge on the back of my 29g, and it works great. Little buggers all over that thing, and my chaeto is growing like weeds.
The problem with intank fuges is that they are either too small to be useful (as is the case with larger tanks) or they take up valuable real estate, as is usually the case with nanos.
At least, so I've heard. I threw an aquafuge on the back of my 29g, and it works great. Little buggers all over that thing, and my chaeto is growing like weeds.
I think that they work for some and not for others. Would it help with nitrates.. Yeah. Maybe.. Is it another item to deal with.. yeah, certainly.. Does it require lighting, yeah certainly.. Does this create heat, yeah certainly. Can you handle the heat? Yeah maybe.. Why do you have high nitrates? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Solve this and you won't need a fuge.
Whatever it is .. Cut it out!! LOL.. hope you find the humor. Not that high nitrates are funny, nor is dealing with it funny.. I guess it wasn't funny.. OK, sorry.. What I am trying to say is don't solve your nitrates by adding another factor. Find out where the nitrates are coming from.
Whatever it is .. Cut it out!! LOL.. hope you find the humor. Not that high nitrates are funny, nor is dealing with it funny.. I guess it wasn't funny.. OK, sorry.. What I am trying to say is don't solve your nitrates by adding another factor. Find out where the nitrates are coming from.
Subliminal
NJRC Member
Well, as far as lighting, since it's in tank, it would just be fine with the normal tank lighting, as chaeto doesn't need as much light as most corals...or rather will grow just fine under lower lighting conditions.
its suctioned cupped right under the water line...so with that the lightin is goin to be good cause im gettin a fixture that is 65 watts ,,im trying to get all my live rock in the tank first, then imma get a chiller,then the light fixture...im not rushing the light cause im taking my time to put any corals in...once my levels are good and i have an ice probe,,then comes the corals....first one is the sun polyp...they are a pretty piece...imma train it to eat during the day,,,beings its nocturnal i wanna make sure its feeding good...
nanoguy said:
Wait, you want to put 12x9x7" fuge in a 20 gal tank? Do you realise how much of the tank will be obscured from light by it? And how much of the flow will be disrupted and how many zones of insufficient flow will this create? You plan to have a bunch of fish there - where will they all go? With most of damsels being very aggressive and terrorising most of the fish, you will have very crowded and unhappy family.
Then, once you start having coralline and algae growth, think how will that aesthetically look like if you do not scrub them and how much effort and extra work will it be if you do. And the space between two surfaces, where you are going to attach the fuge with the suction caps, becoming a waste trap. Not a pleasant thought.
A 12x9x7 size fuge is only 3.2 gallons or so. The tank itself is 30 x 12.5 x 12.5. I don't think that's going to be that big of a deal in a 20g tank and sounds about right to me size wise. I think it may have been better to just partition off a section on the short end of the tank and make that into the fuge but this should work also. I do agree it's going to make aquascaping harder. You're not going to get much benefit from making the fuge into a DSB. I'd use only cheato in the fuge and keep the water volume.
If it were me I wouldn't put a 3" layer of sand in the tank as this will displace 4.8 gallons of water. I'd use maybe 1/4 to 1/2" of sand (just enough to cover the bottom) and be done with it. This is enough sand to foster bacteria growth on it. A 1/2" sand bed will only displace 0.8 gallons of water.
I'd also be careful in the selection of live rock used in the tank. I'd try and use the most porous rock I could find to get the biggest benefit with least amount of water displacement as possible. 20lbs or normal Fiji rock will displace 1.3 gallons of water.
If you were to use the 3" sand bed, 20lbs of rock and the fuge in the tank you would end up with about 13.9 gallons (20-4.8-1.3) of water if the tank is filled to the top. If you use say a 1/2" of sand you gain 4 gallons of water back (20-0.8-1.3) and would be at approximately 17.9 gallons.
Even though it sounds like you still have a lot of water at 17.9 it's not all swimable water. Every coral you add is going to displace water and take away from swimable areas for the fish. The fish can't swim in the porous rock nor in the fuge area. You're going to have to watch your stocking very carefully and pick very appropriate fish.
You're basically better off with your setup then something like a 12g nano and not quite as good as a 24g nano. About in the middle. If you think in terms of nano size tanks you should be ok.
Carlo
PS you could try a RDSB (remote deep sand bed). Get an empty plastic Folgers coffee "can" or small bucket and drill/punch two holes on opposite sides of the can towards the top. Install a small tap or silicone two 3/8" tubes (or so) into each side. One is connected to a pump in the tank and the other side is the return. A small mini-jet pump would work good here. Fill the coffee can 1/2 way with sand and silicone the lid tight. You can improvise on the design to fit your stand or containers you have on hand. This would give you a DSB to help with nitrates and give you a tad bit more overall water volume.
If it were me I wouldn't put a 3" layer of sand in the tank as this will displace 4.8 gallons of water. I'd use maybe 1/4 to 1/2" of sand (just enough to cover the bottom) and be done with it. This is enough sand to foster bacteria growth on it. A 1/2" sand bed will only displace 0.8 gallons of water.
I'd also be careful in the selection of live rock used in the tank. I'd try and use the most porous rock I could find to get the biggest benefit with least amount of water displacement as possible. 20lbs or normal Fiji rock will displace 1.3 gallons of water.
If you were to use the 3" sand bed, 20lbs of rock and the fuge in the tank you would end up with about 13.9 gallons (20-4.8-1.3) of water if the tank is filled to the top. If you use say a 1/2" of sand you gain 4 gallons of water back (20-0.8-1.3) and would be at approximately 17.9 gallons.
Even though it sounds like you still have a lot of water at 17.9 it's not all swimable water. Every coral you add is going to displace water and take away from swimable areas for the fish. The fish can't swim in the porous rock nor in the fuge area. You're going to have to watch your stocking very carefully and pick very appropriate fish.
You're basically better off with your setup then something like a 12g nano and not quite as good as a 24g nano. About in the middle. If you think in terms of nano size tanks you should be ok.
Carlo
PS you could try a RDSB (remote deep sand bed). Get an empty plastic Folgers coffee "can" or small bucket and drill/punch two holes on opposite sides of the can towards the top. Install a small tap or silicone two 3/8" tubes (or so) into each side. One is connected to a pump in the tank and the other side is the return. A small mini-jet pump would work good here. Fill the coffee can 1/2 way with sand and silicone the lid tight. You can improvise on the design to fit your stand or containers you have on hand. This would give you a DSB to help with nitrates and give you a tad bit more overall water volume.
Carlo said:
Carlo, I would have to disagree here. Volume vise, 3 gal out of 20 (or 19 since no tank is ever fully filled) doesn't sound bad, and if he had just partitioned 3 gal, that would be fine. But the whole geometry of this fuge inside the 20 gal (wether it is 30x12.5x12.5 or 24x12x16) is wrong. For example, lets say that the fuge is 7" high (he never clarified that) that means that, if your dimension of 12.5 tank height is correct, there will be only 5" beneath 9x12 area or if it is 9" high then only 3" beneath 7x12 are. That is mostly wasted space because there will be no light there and probably no serious flow either. If the fuge pump is outside and cannot be positioned in that side space that is unused (12" tank width - 9" or 7" fuge length), then that space can be pretty much shaded and with a low flow, too. So, in the end, he is wasting much more space then 3 gal, and in a such way that could be detrimental to the system because of possible buildup of "crap". Of course, many people keep very nice 10 gal nanos as well ;D so if he is fine with that I am fine too. Qustion is only if such tank can sustan those 6 fishes he wants + plus corals (sun!) he wants. :-\
Carlo said:
I completely agree with you there, partition would have been much better. He wouldn't even need an additional pump for it, and I would have suggested it, however, he has said that he has already ordered the fuge.
Yea, don't get me wrong mladencovic, I'm not a fan of the setup either for the same reasons you stated. We really aren't disagreeing. I just held back on the fuge as he already had it.
What I was thinking for the use of the fuge since he had it; if the fuge is 7" deep and installed at the surface level the best use under the fuge would be to pile rock and maybe the pump for the fuge. It's not going to be an effective area for corals since the cheato/fuge will block the light. Or possible keep it completely open and make a tunnel for the fish to swim through depending on aquascaping.
Personally I don't see the need for the fuge at all in a small tank. Pretty much no matter what, there is going to be a need for decent size water changes (especially with corals) done frequently to keep the tank healthy. Since you're going to be exporting nitrates/phosphates out via the water changes I'd much rather have the area available to the tank and not the fuge. I might even go lighter on the rock too and not worry about having a "proper" amount (because of the frequent water changes). I'd add as much as needed for looks and for the corals and call it quits. I would however make sure to have a solid 1/2" of fine & medium (mixed) sand at the bottom to foster as much bacteria as possible.
If the fuge could be hung on the outside back or side then it's another story since water volume would be gained. Also there would be no blocking of light or obstacles for the fish. I guess it would depend on how much heat the fuge pump added to the water temps, which is something else you need to watch for.
I never saw mention of 6 fish. WOW, that's a lot for a 20g tank. I've done that a couple of times with Anthias and Chromas during QT but I was switching the fish out to a new tank ever 2 days so I wasn't worried about it. I don't think this is going to work very well long term as it's going to be a battle to keep nitrates down for the health of the corals. Water changes will probably need to be religiously done for this to work. Assuming the fish don't get stressed out from the cramped quarters.
Carlo
What I was thinking for the use of the fuge since he had it; if the fuge is 7" deep and installed at the surface level the best use under the fuge would be to pile rock and maybe the pump for the fuge. It's not going to be an effective area for corals since the cheato/fuge will block the light. Or possible keep it completely open and make a tunnel for the fish to swim through depending on aquascaping.
Personally I don't see the need for the fuge at all in a small tank. Pretty much no matter what, there is going to be a need for decent size water changes (especially with corals) done frequently to keep the tank healthy. Since you're going to be exporting nitrates/phosphates out via the water changes I'd much rather have the area available to the tank and not the fuge. I might even go lighter on the rock too and not worry about having a "proper" amount (because of the frequent water changes). I'd add as much as needed for looks and for the corals and call it quits. I would however make sure to have a solid 1/2" of fine & medium (mixed) sand at the bottom to foster as much bacteria as possible.
If the fuge could be hung on the outside back or side then it's another story since water volume would be gained. Also there would be no blocking of light or obstacles for the fish. I guess it would depend on how much heat the fuge pump added to the water temps, which is something else you need to watch for.
I never saw mention of 6 fish. WOW, that's a lot for a 20g tank. I've done that a couple of times with Anthias and Chromas during QT but I was switching the fish out to a new tank ever 2 days so I wasn't worried about it. I don't think this is going to work very well long term as it's going to be a battle to keep nitrates down for the health of the corals. Water changes will probably need to be religiously done for this to work. Assuming the fish don't get stressed out from the cramped quarters.
Carlo
changing set up which should please everyone besides myself...tankin fuge out and settin it up in a seperate tank...this way it will open up area and allow easier aquascaping...seemed like a good idea at the time and u dont know unless u try something....at least i have a back up tank to make useful of this purchase,,,
i like what ever feed back u want to give...i dont take things to heart...im glad people are so helpful
i like what ever feed back u want to give...i dont take things to heart...im glad people are so helpful
Great attitude nonoguy!
Does what we said make sense to you? I missed the fish list so I'm assuming that was in another thread somewhere. What fish do you plan on adding to the tank?
Curious, since it's a 20L tank. Have you thought of using an overflow with a sump tank underneath (could be a 10g). That would add more water volume and allow you to partition off up to 8 gallon or so for a fuge/dsb combo if you wanted. You could then use the sump area to add a protein skimmer or other equipment if the need arises. Could also put rock there too. More or less "big tank technique" on a smaller tank.
You could probably take the tank to work and get a 1" bulkhead drilled at the top of the tank. A little plastic grate type overflow (JBL nano cube style) could then be installed on the inside of the tank over the bulkhead.
I don't really know how "fancy" you wanted to get with the setup or what the stand/area you are planning on putting the tank can support another sump/tank underneath but just thought I'd throw this idea out there. I'm sure you have contemplated it already.
Carlo
Does what we said make sense to you? I missed the fish list so I'm assuming that was in another thread somewhere. What fish do you plan on adding to the tank?
Curious, since it's a 20L tank. Have you thought of using an overflow with a sump tank underneath (could be a 10g). That would add more water volume and allow you to partition off up to 8 gallon or so for a fuge/dsb combo if you wanted. You could then use the sump area to add a protein skimmer or other equipment if the need arises. Could also put rock there too. More or less "big tank technique" on a smaller tank.
You could probably take the tank to work and get a 1" bulkhead drilled at the top of the tank. A little plastic grate type overflow (JBL nano cube style) could then be installed on the inside of the tank over the bulkhead.
I don't really know how "fancy" you wanted to get with the setup or what the stand/area you are planning on putting the tank can support another sump/tank underneath but just thought I'd throw this idea out there. I'm sure you have contemplated it already.
Carlo
i have slept on this thought last night...i have decided to keep the fuge in the tank...u may slaughter me with disbelieve or think it cant be done...i like when someone says i cant do something...its a challenge...how cool could i make this if it works...i have rethought my stock list...fish wise there will be only 2 maybe three...yellow watchman goby...small clown and a royal gramma...this tank is goin to be mostly reef and rock i may not add fish in it at all they will be last...i was a lil disgrunted about the fuge when i placed it in the tank,,,but looking at it more and more it really doesn't look as bad ..the plan i came up with is to place rock half way up the tank in the front glass and have rock descend to the back leaving open areas for my snails to be able to move under the sand,,,under the fuge i am goin to make a cave like structure to block the light from that corner because i really want sun corals because they are so striking when opened...i take care of so many tanks at the store i work at< aquarium center in blackwood> so taking the time for my tank is no work just alot of enjoyment,,,target feedin is no problem i know about what needs to be done with this...most of my corals will be placed in certain areas with some clearance from others so there is no problems...and the fuge in the end will be transpired into a mini tank inside a tank with small live rock pieces and frags,,i will post picks in a month or so when the process is a few steps in,,,i will show from step one and on...please dont judge this right now give me a chance to show that this is goin to work...until then i hope u all have the best of luck with ur tanks...and thanks for the suggestions....glad to be part of a forum that shows its appreciation to ocean reefs...
Don't forget mladencovic, we were both saying the same thing before I mentioned the external sump.
Hey BTW, while I'm thinking about it Nanoguy, if we stop in the store and want to say hello, who would we ask for? I'd feel stupid asking "Is Nanoguy here?"
More ideas: hmmm
Well how about you tell us which type of setup you are thinking of going with at the moment so we get a better idea. Anything concrete yet like using a HOB filter, HOB skimmer, etc. Any idea how much rock you are going to start with/use?
There are definitely some other ideas that could be thrown out but it also depends on what you want to do with the tank. Keep a super stable system. Learn/try some new things, esplore the edge a little, see how far you can develop the Eco system to avoid water changes as much as possible, etc... The avoiding water changes is what I'm playing with or striving to do with a few mods on my kids new 24g nano. I'm doing this successfully on my big system so I want to see how far some of the things I do there will scale to smaller systems. I just set it up 2 days ago so not much has been done yet but putting rock, sand, water (all from my existing system) in it along with a small zoa frag collection (maybe 40 frags), a couple other LPS corals and a long nose hawk who's been in QT. It'll be a while before I start to experiment or know anything. It's actually my kids tank so they did the setup and swiping of my zoas, but I'll get the maintenance end of the work with them doing what ever water changes are needed as well as basic testing of the tank.
Kids are funny and learn pretty well from example. My daughter (11) after completely filling up the rocks with zoas gets her brother (9) to also fill the sand area with zoas. When I asked them where they were going to put any new corals they both pretty much answered they'll take the new corals and give me back some of my old frags they don't like as much. They see me moving corals out of my main reef to other tanks to make room for "good stuff". I was also told I can have their leftover fish when the grow to big too. They both want baby yellow and powder blue tangs. I got the feeling I'm going to have a few more tangs next year in the big reef. Maybe I got to lay down the law with them and tell them stealing dad's frags or fragging the corals is allowed (she does this already) but fragging the fishies is not and they need to use their own allowance to buy fishies. That should keep the fish count down to something manageable.
BTW, what fish are you thinking of stocking? I never caught your list.
Carlo
Hey BTW, while I'm thinking about it Nanoguy, if we stop in the store and want to say hello, who would we ask for? I'd feel stupid asking "Is Nanoguy here?"
More ideas: hmmm
Well how about you tell us which type of setup you are thinking of going with at the moment so we get a better idea. Anything concrete yet like using a HOB filter, HOB skimmer, etc. Any idea how much rock you are going to start with/use?
There are definitely some other ideas that could be thrown out but it also depends on what you want to do with the tank. Keep a super stable system. Learn/try some new things, esplore the edge a little, see how far you can develop the Eco system to avoid water changes as much as possible, etc... The avoiding water changes is what I'm playing with or striving to do with a few mods on my kids new 24g nano. I'm doing this successfully on my big system so I want to see how far some of the things I do there will scale to smaller systems. I just set it up 2 days ago so not much has been done yet but putting rock, sand, water (all from my existing system) in it along with a small zoa frag collection (maybe 40 frags), a couple other LPS corals and a long nose hawk who's been in QT. It'll be a while before I start to experiment or know anything. It's actually my kids tank so they did the setup and swiping of my zoas, but I'll get the maintenance end of the work with them doing what ever water changes are needed as well as basic testing of the tank.
Kids are funny and learn pretty well from example. My daughter (11) after completely filling up the rocks with zoas gets her brother (9) to also fill the sand area with zoas. When I asked them where they were going to put any new corals they both pretty much answered they'll take the new corals and give me back some of my old frags they don't like as much. They see me moving corals out of my main reef to other tanks to make room for "good stuff". I was also told I can have their leftover fish when the grow to big too. They both want baby yellow and powder blue tangs. I got the feeling I'm going to have a few more tangs next year in the big reef.
Maybe I got to lay down the law with them and tell them stealing dad's frags or fragging the corals is allowed (she does this already) but fragging the fishies is not and they need to use their own allowance to buy fishies. That should keep the fish count down to something manageable.BTW, what fish are you thinking of stocking? I never caught your list.
Carlo
We were both typing at the same time and you posted before me which answered some of the questions.
I'm not a fan of the fuge in tank but do think it'll work. I myself would start with one fish and not wait on that. The corals are going to want some organics in the water and depend on it to a certain extent so even in a coral only system you usually still see a fish or two because of this.
I don't think I'd have the rock piled 1/2 way up in the front getting higher going back. I usually like a clean open front for the fish to be able to swim in. I'd say 3" to 4" open at least on a 20g L. But that's only my opinion and way of doing it. It's COOL to see other approaches and maybe learn from it. That's the neat thing about this hobby. There are so many ways of doing this that work (even when you don't think they should) that no two systems are really alike.
Look at it this way. If down the line you see you don't like something you can modify the system and change it! In a way (even against opposing views, including my own) I'm glad you are giving your original idea I try. If not you will always wonder, what if... You definitely have a good foundation and have some good resources at work to ask questions and get help from. At least you don't have to make a pit stop on the way home from work to pick something up at the LFS.
Now get busy and don't forget to keep us updated! Post some pics when you get the rock in too so we can see the fuge and rock in the tank.
Carlo
I'm not a fan of the fuge in tank but do think it'll work. I myself would start with one fish and not wait on that. The corals are going to want some organics in the water and depend on it to a certain extent so even in a coral only system you usually still see a fish or two because of this.
I don't think I'd have the rock piled 1/2 way up in the front getting higher going back. I usually like a clean open front for the fish to be able to swim in. I'd say 3" to 4" open at least on a 20g L. But that's only my opinion and way of doing it. It's COOL to see other approaches and maybe learn from it. That's the neat thing about this hobby. There are so many ways of doing this that work (even when you don't think they should) that no two systems are really alike.
Look at it this way. If down the line you see you don't like something you can modify the system and change it! In a way (even against opposing views, including my own) I'm glad you are giving your original idea I try. If not you will always wonder, what if... You definitely have a good foundation and have some good resources at work to ask questions and get help from. At least you don't have to make a pit stop on the way home from work to pick something up at the LFS.
Now get busy and don't forget to keep us updated! Post some pics when you get the rock in too so we can see the fuge and rock in the tank.
Carlo
its funny if i had a lil bit bigger stand i could of upgraded the tank to a larger one without burning another hole in the pocket..but i have what i have and have to work with it...i understand my approach to this tank is not too favorable by those in the hobby and those helpful people that post replies to this topic..but like u said i have to atleast try and make it work or i will never know if i could of gotten to...the tank is goin to have an unordinary approach to aqua scaping ...but thats what makes each tank different...or else everyone would have the same setup and not have their own individual setup...by the way my name is Tom..so if u ever are in the area of the store pop in and say hi...i dont know when the last time u were in there carlo but we converted the pond into a shark setup and just added a big queen trigger into the setup. so far the trigger has left the black tip, smooth hounds, bamboo and port jackson sharks alone...but that fish has quite the temper...back to what i was saying, i dont expect alot of fans on my side on how i am setting it up...i guess im goin against certain aspects on settin up a nano...but i do understand all the fundamentals that are needed...water flow, lighting, filtration...etc...thats the good thing about working at a GOOD store..i have people there that can give me pointers as i go on...yeah i know the fuge is some what big..i wish i went with the smaller version but hey now i have to develope it in the tank..its 2 for 1 in a way to look at it...later i can use the fuge as a mini tank inside a tank...it doesn't block off the light as bad as some may think...and there is plenty of room under it and around for 2 fish to swim...i dont plan on having more then that cause its not fair for a fish to not have room to explore...i plan on setting up multiple caves and holes for them to swim through...i have about 10-12 pounds of live rock in it and 10 lbs of live sand...i want to hit the 25 pound mark with the live rock and set it up so that the fish i do throw in it have room too..plus i want to leave room in it for any lil critters that like the sand substrate, for ex my nassarius snails...as i develope this tank i am looking at all aspects of the organisms that are goin to be put in it...i hope to be able to turn alot of negative opinions around to positive feedback once this tank is done..i do appreciate any feed back i get from members dont get me wrong...i rather have someone be honest with me and speak their mind rather then not say anything at all...i joined this club for that reason...to have be able to be apart of a group that all have the same interest in this hobby and see how each person approaches their size tank and make it look like part of a reef system but in their living room ...i will get some pics once the foundation has been layed out...this way everyone who has responded can get a feel at what i am tryin to do....
tom
tom