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Aquariumsforyou.com

H

harryk

Well after looking around for someone to build my 90 gallon sump i went with a company located in Long Branch NJ, Aquariumsforyou.com. From everything that i read in various places and posts about them they did not come highly recommended, but i went with them anyway because they were local and reasonably priced. I should have listened to the nay sayers. I finally picked up my sump yesterday after 1+ months, and I am very dissatisfied. First off their customer service is terrible. I receive only 1 update telling me that "due to unforeseen circumstances my sump will be delayed" I didn't even get a ETA on completion. When i finally did get a vague ETA they blew it by 2 weeks and i had to follow up with them. And lo and behold it was ready the day after I sent them a nasty email.

Now on to the sump. It was supposed to be made of 3/8" acrylic, but the bottom and most critical piece is only 1/4". Most of the seams are sloppy and full of bubbles. From all my research the seams should be 99% bubble free and clear, I know it's only a sump but come on. I probably could have done the same job with some research and I've never worked with acrylic. well I for one, will never have anything to do with this company ever again and i should have listened to the naysayers, they were right. It's a shame, they are a local company, but i will never recommend them. Now I'm stuck with a sump i do not really like visually, but oh well next time I will definitely go with another company. Maybe I'm being picky about the craftsmanship but I've seen plenty of sumps and none looked as sloppy as this.

Harry
 
MikeNapoli

MikeNapoli

Harry, that sucks ... Sorry to here you had a bad experience with them.

I was gonna use them for a future custom tank but now I will most definitely not even attempt an estimate.
 
H

harryk

MikeNapoli said:
Harry, that sucks ... Sorry to here you had a bad experience with them.

I was gonna use them for a future custom tank but now I will most definitely not even attempt an estimate.
Click to expand...

Not a problem, I hope my situation helps other people avoid the same thing that happened to me. We are here to educate each other and share experiences, some good and some not so good. that's how IMO we grow in this hobby

Harry
 
M

minotaur15

Hello folks! My name is Dan Maughmer, the retail salesman who sold HarryK his sump, and worked with him extensively by phone or email to establish his needs and convert them into a product that would work with his specilized needs. Public forums such as this one, are wonderful tools for the exchange of information, however, they are also the means for spreading misinformation as well. I have long been a member of such sites as reefs.org and reefcentral.com, and was there when those sites and the reefkeeping hobby were still much in infant stages of the modern era. I know the power that these public forums hold, and it is certainly unfair when several individuals have the ability to pillory vendors and manufacturers from a completely one sided view. I hope all the members of this board are able to keep an open mind to that fact.

I am rather surprised that on this site people refer to us in a negative tone. I woudl challenge all who think we are not a company with a quality product and a commitment to good customer service to search broader on the internet, and one the more main-stream sites for a more honest look. I know our reputation for quality, beyond this instance, is simply impeccable. For a more local look, I advise that you should converse with the Boston Reefkeeping Society for the quality of the builds we have made for many of their members. Greg Hiller, Greg Thevenin, and others.

So, with the chance to rebutt the contentions that HarryK has made and have those who would take the experience of a rare few people to dissuade them from giving a company a chances to even make a bid, here I am giving the other side of the coin so that you all have a chance to accurately judge the character of our company.

AFY has always been committed to the quality of our products, and we hold to this even at the stake of disappointing people and their timetables. Everyone wants what they want, and they want it now. However, the reality is that in order to to the job right, sometimes it takes a longer time than estimated. Everyone can also agree that wherever human hands are laid, the opporunity for mistakes are certainly possible. I have not yet met a divine human, and to expect divine results from humans is unresonable. I can certainly acknowledge that HarryK do not receive exactly what he needed, or that he was not pleased with what he thought he was going to receive. However, HarryK has also not acknowledged publicly that AFY is going to bend over backwards to ensure that he gets what he paid for.

Rather than telling HarryK to 'pound sand' as companies that really do not care might do, we are going to rebuild his sump to his satisfaction. There can be no better customer service than that in the custom industry. We will certainly be losing money and time for other clients projects in order to please HarryK. What more does one ask for and expect reasonably?

There are also many implications that HarryK made about the manufacturing of acrylic aquarium products that am not sure that he has any professional basis to make.

In a perfect world, the bonding of acrylic by the various possible methods would yield a perfect result. However, in the real world, visual imperfections can and do occur in every single acrylic bond made by every single manufacturer. Not a single manufacturer guarantee's completely bubble free appearance without a costly premium being charged. It is also an un-reasonable expectation for the multitude of seams in a sump with extensive baffles to be 99% perfect either. That being said, and with my personal attention to detail (to the point of being called a nit-picker by my own boss), I have seen that our work by our sump construction technician is exceptional, and we do often have a bubble free bond without the explicit attempt to do so. The skill needed to successfully join acrylic with a great appearance is difficult at best and requires years of dedicated practice to achieve. AFY has techinicians who have exactly that. However, at no point did HarryK have any reason to believe that his sump would be 'perfect' outside of the bounds of reality, nor did he ever express his expectation for that.

Next, HarryK calls into question the material specifications that our engineering standards and years of experience has called for in the manufacturing of his sump. Contrary to the information that he received and believes in, the single most important material thickness dimension in acrylic construction is the walls. The walls on all of our sumps starts at 3/8" thick, which is greater than all commercially available non-custom sumps and filters that I have ever seen. However, since the bottom of the walls is adheered to the bottom, the critical thickness of the walls provides the basis od the bond that will ensure that the box will hold water properly. Were acrylic construction like that of glass tank construction, where the bottom panel's edge is bonded to the wall on the side edge, then the thickness of the bottom panel would be key, just as it is in our glass aquarium construction.

As for our customer service, I can also acknowledge that our reputation in this arena has not been as good as we would like it over the years. We have experienced incredible growth and keeping up to perfection standards as everyone holds these days is not easy. While we give no excuse for failing to communicate perfectly, I would say that HarryK has no reason to complain about the service that he has recevied. Even though my time as a salesman would have been better served attending to client's with much larger projects, I gave him the same treatment as one of those larger clients and spent considerable time talking with him to develop the best plan to satisfy his project needs. Severals hours of time was spent in communication and planning for his sump build, for a whole $357.00, and not much to speak of being in it for me directly. I gave him all the time needed even after the he gave us money - there is no cut an run from me! Also, he did note that he was contacted to notify him of a delay in construction his sump.

<continued on next post>
 
M

minotaur15

Well, here is how much communication he received prior to and after the sale:

1/9/08, First Contact, sales lead from HarryK
1/10/08, Sent preliminary email quote to HarryK
1/10/08, HarryK replied thanking me for getting back to him so quickly.
1/12/08, Sent email with photos of our sump work
1/12/08, Sent email to followup on pricing information
1/17/08 Received email from HarryK stating he wanted to order the sump and to give him a call.
1/17/08 Date of Sale, phone calls with myself and faxed order received.
1/17/08, Sent email advising him that I would send him a specification sheet for his approval as soon as the order contract was received.
1/17/08, Received faxed contract. Estimated completion date set for February 7th.
1/23/08,
1/23/08, Sent email from me letting him no it would be no problem to answer further questions by phone.
1/21/08, Monday after the sale, sent specification sheet for review by client. Client called to review and make changes
1/22/08, Revised spec sheet and sent.
1/23/08, Sent email to client after no reply to spec sheet transmittal.
1/23/08, Received email from client advising he had been away on business and would get it back to me the next day.
1/24/08, received signed specification sheet
1/25/08, Received email from HarryK with questions on sump construction and configuration.
1/25/08, Sent email from me explaining an aspect of sump construction
1/25/08, Call from me, reviewing sump construction details.
1/28/08, Received email from client advising of his needs for his skimmer, an alteration to the standard construction, and needed change to the order.
1/28/08, Sent email from me, acknowledging the special feature cust made into a main baffle wall to accomdate his skimmer needs.
1/28/08, Received verbal approval of change in construction.
2/5/08, Email sent from our production coordinator that due to circumstances beyond our control that his production was delayed. Expected to have box completed at the end of the following week and would advise client as soon as she knew when it would be ready to pick up.
2/13/08, received email from client asking for a date of completion.
2/13/08, Production Coordinator responded that she would advise him as soon as she knew.
2/28/08 (Thusday), received email from client asking for production update and claiming that patience was running thin and expecting a fast response.
2/28/08, Production coordinator sent email advising that the sump would be ready for pickup the next day after noon. Asked for idea when client would arrive to pickup.
2/28/08, client advised he would be in around 2pm, thanks for prompt response.
2/28/08, production coordinator responds saying 'see you tomorrow'
3/1/08 3:13 pm (Saturday), Client emails me advising he was un-happy with his sump. Advised that he was concerned about the material thickness, bubbles in seams, and thought the sump was not water tested.
3/1/08 3:36pm, Client posts to this forum making his frustrations known.
3/3/08 (Monday), I sent email responding to his concerns advising him that the 3/8" material spec was indeed for the walls according to our high standards and assuring him that any bubbles in the seams would not affect the intergrity of the build, and verified that the sump was indeed water tested. Asked him to let me know if there were any other problems.
3/3/08, received phone call from a clearly upset HarryK and in concurrence with the owner of the company advised him that we would make everything right with the project just as soon was humanly possible. Client advised me that he would be un-able to return the sump until 3/15.

At this point, we are still waiting for HarryK to return the sump.

As can clearly been seen, we have made every reasonable attempt to satisfy the needs of HarryK are are still in the process of doing so. We are insulted as a company of HarryK's public flaying of our company prior to the conclusion of of the transaction where we are doing everything possible to give him satisfaction. I am further saddened that members of this board would take this instance at face value in their judgement of our business practices and product quality. I hope my information will alter those opinions.

As an example of our good nature and desire to have this instance weighed properly in this public forum, I will provide updates from our side of the fence including pictures of the work that was performed for HarryK previously, as well as what we provide in replacement. Let this serve as an example of exemplary customer service and a manufacturer standing up for human errors that are a fact of life. If anyone has any questions, please feel free to email me at danm@aquariumsforyou.com, or call me at 732-229-8005 ext. 310.

Dan Maughmer
Retail Sales






Edited by Phyl to remove contact information. Please contact me regarding sponsorship, should you be interested in advertising on NJRC

Second Edit to remove Harry's last name.
 
magic

magic

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
I was with Harry on Sunday installing his tank and sump. The sump section that was supposed to house his skimmer is too small the skimmer won't fit even though Harry told you what skimmer he had purchased and the dimensions! So much for the attention to the details!
 
M

minotaur15

Magic,

So noted and as for my end the instructions were correct. But as with the other issues, it will be fixed! A mistake is a mistake, but it should be a problem only when it is not rectified! Do you think that may not be so?
 
S

sinkingbeach

Harry unfortunately it's not on your time frame, but I'd consider myself lucky if the retailer stood behind their product the way AFY is. Let us know how the new sump turns out.
 
J

JasonR

Dan its a shame you have to join under these circumstance's
It looks like you and the company are trying to do the right thing for this customer.
Keep us updated

We will look forward to seeing AFY as a sponsor
Maybe there could be a tour of your facility some day

Jason
 
M

minotaur15

Jason,

You are welcome anytime, just let me know. We are certainly exploring the sponsorship possibility and you'll know if and when we do so. That frag tank just might be the right thing for a raffle Mike...

Dan
 
B

bconn

Is is refreshing to see a company with the concern demonstrated here for customer satisfaction. I have run into a similiar situation with a tank I purchased. I am also "lucky" that that firm has stood behind their product.

Please keep us posted on the final resolution with the sump.

Thanks. ???
 
H

harryk

First let me clarify a few things. I posted the experience that I had with AFY. Mine happened to not be that great. I am well aware that others have had great experiences, but that can be said about any company or product. I dropped off my sump on 3/15 so a new one can be built with a correct skimmer chamber. I spoke to the owner and he listened to my concerns and my new sump is supposedly going into production this week. Dan is correct i am no expert on acrylic bonding, but i am educated enough to do research and know that acrylic seams should be as bubble free as possible, i never expected perfectly clear seems, that's not realistic, but when all you see is bubbles to me that's not a good seam Bonding acrylic is a process that chenically melts the 2 pieces together and bubbles mean air. Where there are bubbles the acrylic isn't bonded. If i'm wrong someone please correct me. But in any event i'm not here to debate acrylic bonding.

Below is a quote from Dan on the customer sevice i received. I have no issues with Dan or his customer service, he was excellent in following up, but I do have an issue with only receiving 1 vague update from the production department in 30 days, to me that not very good customer service and I got an email from the production department after i picked up my sump telling me it was ready. I thought that was kinda funny. I do realize that i only spent a WHOLE 357.00 on my sump as Dan put it. But in the future i might have spent a few thousand on a new tank. People upgrade all the time in this hobby. This time i went from a 75 to a 215, next time i might go from a 215 to a 400+. In any event they are making me a new sump to rectify the situation and I can put this all behind me. This whole experience almost makes me regret going to a bigger tank. All the joy has been sucked out of my upgrade. I would have posted this long post sooner but i've been a little busy. Let's see works been crazy, found out my wife's having a baby and oh yea my cousin is in the hospital with liver failure and will probably die if he doesn't get a liver transpant, so in closing i do apologize for not posting an update sooner but life for me is a little hectic for the last 2 weeks. I hope everyone understands.

"While we give no excuse for failing to communicate perfectly, I would say that HarryK has no reason to complain about the service that he has recevied. Even though my time as a salesman would have been better served attending to client's with much larger projects, I gave him the same treatment as one of those larger clients and spent considerable time talking with him to develop the best plan to satisfy his project needs. Severals hours of time was spent in communication and planning for his sump build, for a whole $357.00, and not much to speak of being in it for me directly. I gave him all the time needed even after the he gave us money - there is no cut an run from me! Also, he did note that he was contacted to notify him of a delay in construction his sump."

In closing i am waiting on a new sump to be made so i can complete my upgrade.

Regards
Harry
 
JRWOHLER

JRWOHLER

Please let us know the end result. I can imagine that becoming a sponsor would be an incredibly helpful thing for a local company. I plan on doing an upgrade and would rather pay a local company then an Italian or Canadian one if I could get a high quality product. As Harry mentioned his first order may not be huge but considering the process it seems we all go through they get progressively larger.

Hope that a) Harry gets his upgrade done and well b) Aquariums for you becomes a sponsor and dedicates themselves to a higher quality product.
 
T

tony13

I just found this thread and have to agree that AFY is the worst. It seems to be the same story with everyone of your customers, bad service, delays on completion date and finally not getting the product you ordered. You guys built a tank for me and I was warned not to use you but figured give the local guy some business. Well after 3 months of getting the run around and not the tank I specified, it still ends up splitting at the seam and leaking. Look me up in your records if you guys keep any. I tell everyone I meet to stay away from AFY.
Tony Hilbert
 
H

harryk

Well i picked up my replacement sump last week and it is 100% better then the last one that they built for me. It was built to my exact specifications and the seams are much much nicer then the last ones. I will post picks of it in my build thread later on today or tomorrow as i will start putting my tank together.

thanks
Harry
 
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