Brandon's WTH was I thinking 125 gallon madness

9supratt4 · Dec 9, 2009

Is a 480 Watt T5 system going to be strong enough for that large of a tank?

I'm a MH guy...I love the shimmering look you get with the MH's and IMO the PAR is much better with MH's especially as you get deeper into the water column.

And after a lot of research and discussion in another thread under Advanced Reefkeeping....the research I have found is that you MUST be sure to change the bulbs annually in order to avoid severe spectral shift in the wavelengths the light is producing. And you need more T5 bulbs to acheive the natural light level that we all try to reach in our tanks, whereas 3 MH bulbs get a lot closer to natural light.

Also, the MH bulbs, after research are found not to have a spectral shift, but only lose PAR.

Just my .02

mfisher2112 · Dec 9, 2009

Brando457 said:
mfisher the fixture you posted is 60" the tank is 72" so that'd leave 6" on each side would that be an issue?

Yup. Should be fine.

Brando457 said:
sweet and as far as mounting moonlights? or are they even necessary

Moon lights are very cool. Not necessary, but definitely a plus.

Check around on Ebay etc. I've found several different times "strings" of pre-wired blue moon led's, and you can just attach them to your fixture.

As for shimmer? You can reproduce that by adding some brite white LED's to the fixture. Either in a string, or with a "tube". Now mind you, I don't get the intense shimmer that you get with MH running LED's, but I do get a shimmer from them.

9supratt4 said:
Is a 480 Watt T5 system going to be strong enough for that large of a tank?

I'm a MH guy...I love the shimmering look you get with the MH's and IMO the PAR is much better with MH's especially as you get deeper into the water column.

And after a lot of research and discussion in another thread under Advanced Reefkeeping....the research I have found is that you MUST be sure to change the bulbs annually in order to avoid severe spectral shift in the wavelengths the light is producing. And you need more T5 bulbs to acheive the natural light level that we all try to reach in our tanks, whereas 3 MH bulbs get a lot closer to natural light.

Also, the MH bulbs, after research are found not to have a spectral shift, but only lose PAR.

Just my .02

Check out the "tale of the tank" forums and look up JerseyWendy's tank. 180 gallon all T5 with GORGEOUS SPS.

Many others as well.

We could debate the meritts of each, MH and T5, back and forth all day long. There is just as much "reading" and "research" that can be found to support both sides of the argument.

Personally? Practically? I've run both. When I set my 210 up, I'm going back to T5's.

9supratt4 · Dec 9, 2009

mfisher....you are correct....we can fill this thread with pages upon pages of back and forth between MH & T5 LOL.

Brandon....my suggestion to you is go slow and pick which light set up you like the best personally. Go and see a couple tanks with T5's and go see a couple tanks with MH's. Both will get the job done.

JRWOHLER · Dec 9, 2009

Yep the MH VS T5 debate ...one of the great reefer debates of all times.
I am a T5 guy, supratt9 points out you need to replace your lights...regularly which I agree with for T5 but also you need to do it for MH. IMHO PC shift is much much worse then T5 shift....and slower. PC you need every 6-9 months and it is dramatic shift, T5 it is 9-18 months, actinic have shorter lifespan, and the shift is not as bad from experience. I think MH they suggest 9-12 months but I leave that for supratt as I don't know squat about MH bulbs.

T5 I know pretty well, have done hours and hours of research. The long and short of it is this.
MH provides slightly better par and more heat. T5 less heat/energy, slightly lower par, and greater choice of colors(which of course you can add to MH) like you can add LED to T5 for shimmer.

I like the colors from T5 for LPS. And I have a two clams on the sand or bottom that are doing well so it can be done.
Bulb choice is extremely important in T5 much more then MH which is more taste I think.

The suggestion of waiting and deciding after seeing different tanks with both is the best one. Plus you can maybe wait for the group buy.

9supratt4 · Dec 9, 2009

JRWOHLER said:
Yep the MH VS T5 debate ...one of the great reefer debates of all times.
I am a T5 guy, supratt9 points out you need to replace your lights...regularly which I agree with for T5 but also you need to do it for MH. IMHO PC shift is much much worse then T5 shift....and slower. PC you need every 6-9 months and it is dramatic shift, T5 it is 9-18 months, actinic have shorter lifespan, and the shift is not as bad from experience. I think MH they suggest 9-12 months but I leave that for supratt as I don't know squat about MH bulbs.

T5 I know pretty well, have done hours and hours of research. The long and short of it is this.
MH provides slightly better par and more heat. T5 less heat/energy, slightly lower par, and greater choice of colors(which of course you can add to MH) like you can add LED to T5 for shimmer.

I like the colors from T5 for LPS. And I have a two clams on the sand or bottom that are doing well so it can be done.
Bulb choice is extremely important in T5 much more then MH which is more taste I think.

The suggestion of waiting and deciding after seeing different tanks with both is the best one. Plus you can maybe wait for the group buy.

JRWOHLER...From the research I have done over the past 2 years...changing MH's is anywhere from 12-18 months. Of course the further you go, the less PAR, but thats like any light.

If I were setting up a tank, I'd figure out everything except the lights first....the lights are the last thing you need in order to get the tank up and started into it's cycle.

mfisher2112 · Dec 9, 2009

9supratt4 said:
If I were setting up a tank, I'd figure out everything except the lights first....the lights are the last thing you need in order to get the tank up and started into it's cycle.

This I can definitely agree with.

-Tank
-Stand
-Sump/Plumbing
-Skimmer & Return Pump
-RO/DI
-Salt Choice
-Power Heads/flow choices
-Heaters
-Rock and Sand
-Lights
-Misc Equipment
-Livestock (of course, livestock should always continue to be considered, because it can sway your equipment choices one way or another...)

Just my 2 cents.

JRWOHLER · Dec 9, 2009

I have seen systems run without a skimmer for a while so might say that while that is in a good place you could in theory leave it till much later. But you will likely have to leave a larger amount of room in the sump or only be able to buy a skimmer that fits your sump.

Brando457 · Dec 10, 2009

So I am almost ready for the renovation of my room, I am in the basement so weight of the tank isn't a factor really. I will be knocking out one of my walls and extending it back 4 feet. Previously my mom had a bunch of stuff sitting that hasn't been touched in a very long time. After cleaning it all out construction can begin.

I priced a stand today $100 for an iron one welded together, it measures 72x18x30. Meaning my tank will be at 55 height which I think is perfect. I plan on either draping a curtain infront of the opening to hide the sump or framing it out with wood and placing a door on it.

Anyone have a sump for sale or baffles they could make up? I'm still deciding on size of it, which I guess will be dependent on my skimmer.

Also is there any great benefit of having the fuge in the sump? I see all the ones for sale at the stores being (Skimmer | bubble traps | return pump section/area for heaters)

I was planning on doing (Skimmer | LR/LS | return pump), but some people say you don't need a fuge others swear by it. Any input is appreciated.

qwik · Dec 10, 2009

Not sure of the light but if it did cost 1200 new its probably mh and then you can get t5's to supplement . He's only asking 750 for everything,maybe he'll part out,also a skimmer in the pic,not sure what type,hope it helps.

http://cnj.craigslist.org/hsh/1490413694.html

Brando457 · Dec 10, 2009

thank you!

mfisher2112 · Dec 10, 2009

Brando457 said:
Also is there any great benefit of having the fuge in the sump? I see all the ones for sale at the stores being (Skimmer | bubble traps | return pump section/area for heaters)

I was planning on doing (Skimmer | LR/LS | return pump), but some people say you don't need a fuge others swear by it. Any input is appreciated.

I use my "refugium" for multiple things.

1: I keep macro algae in there to help nutrient export
2: It is a haven for "pods" that make their way back to the tank as food
3: If I have a frag, or a mushroom, or ricordia, something like that that needs time in low flow to attach, I use that section to place the mushroom on a pile of rock rubble, give a week or two to attach on its own, then move it to the display
4: And last but not least, it acts as "time out" or prison for obnoxious fish. Right now, there is a black and white striped damsel that came with a previous tanks setup I bought that has been banished for tormenting his neighbors.

I do have live rock and sand in there, and all kinds of things "grow" and thrive in there. Right now, there's live sand in there that originally came from about 5 different sources to get some diversity.

So, I say all that to say even if you don't believe in the redeeming value of chaeto for nutrient export, it certainly provides a number of other functions as well!

My sump is set up left to right skimmer/fuge/return. The skimmer section is large enough to hold the heaters, and the pump for the carbon reactor. Very simple design.

JRWOHLER · Dec 10, 2009

If you are moving building walls I would highly suggest you build an area to keep your sump/ATO/saltwater mixing containers in. You will be able to "hide" them and a lot of the noise that goes along with the pump/water gurgling, etc.

I love a fuge it is a great way to export nuitrients, balance your PH cycle, and grow pods that feed into your DT.

Brando457 · Dec 10, 2009

I'M actually planning on plumbing a pipe behind the wall and storing my ro there. I have about 3 feet or so then I can roll the barrel near the washer for filling etc

JRWOHLER · Dec 10, 2009

Great if you can find room for two containers you will find that you need to mix SW too I have it set up so I unplug ATO pump , drain the water, then plug in second pump that moves the fresh SW into the tank. Life is good. ;D

mfisher2112 · Dec 10, 2009

Def two containers. I like to keep my RO completely seperate from my SW mixing container.

I just use the 30 gallon brute trash cans with the dolly that they snap on to.

JRWOHLER · Dec 10, 2009

mfisher2112 said:
Def two containers. I like to keep my RO completely seperate from my SW mixing container.

I just use the 30 gallon brute trash cans with the dolly that they snap on to.

Same with me but stationary.

Also you can put fuge on one end of sump, skimmer on other and return in middle.

Here is a pic of mine, not that way. Skimmer to the right.

mfisher2112 · Dec 10, 2009

WOW! That's some serious cheato you got cookin in there!

Brando457 · Dec 11, 2009

So some updates:

- getting a light, picking up the 72" version of this at a good deal http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+12113&pcatid=12113

- ordering stand on Monday, it will be a 72 x 18 x 30 metal that I will frame with wood or even drape a piece of cloth in front of to hide the sump

Need to buy/make:

sump, skimmer, heaters, powerheads, lr, sand, salt (missing anything?)

Wondering how much sand should I use for this tank? I don't want a DSB, but was thinking maybe 2 inches so about 100 pounds?

Salt - probably going to buy buckets from OG II

Skimmer/Sump I really still have no idea on what skimmer I am going to buy, I'd like to buy it used to save on costs, but may end up buying new. Also need to figure out how big to make the sump/find someone to either help make it or get baffles made.

Powerheads I think I might bite the bullet after x-mas and buy 2 Vortechs those along with my 2 returns should be plenty of flow and offer peace of mind(Famous last words)

heaters I know they all pretty much do the same thing, but anyone have a favorite they use that is reliable? I'm going to do 2 x 150 which should be enough.

JRWOHLER · Dec 11, 2009

100 lbs will prob do it. My suggestion is Drs Foster...do combo say 1 40lb live 2 30lb dry. Shipping is cheaper since not by weight.

RO/DI is one thing you will need ASAP.

I personally liked putting something down on the glass before I put my rocks down...I used plastic cutting boards.

Eventually you will want to put the rocks down then the sand so you don't have any rockslides.

mfisher2112 · Dec 11, 2009

Brando457 said:
- getting a light, picking up the 72" version of this at a good deal http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3733+12113&pcatid=12113

Is that the 150watt or 250 watt version?

Brando457 said:
sump, skimmer, heaters, powerheads, lr, sand, salt (missing anything?)

RO/DI definately and Return pump?

I have a typhoon III from Air Water Ice. But I know I have seen several people here have purchased from another vendor for significantly less and like it. Can't for the life of me remember what it was though, maybe one of them can pipe up and clue you in there. My Typhoon III is a workhorse. I've only replaced the filters twice in almost 3 years, and TDS is between 0 and 1 pretty consistantly after DI.

As for return pumps, you will probably need something that can handle about 1200 gph allowing for head loss if you go with one, and about 600 after head loss if you go with two.

I like the mag pumps because you can slightly oversize them, and dial them back with ball valves without harming the pump. I have a mag 9.5 that has run for well over 4 years with zero issues, and it has run on 3 different sized tanks from 55, to 75, to 90, all with different levels of restriction based on the overflow volume. I also have seen no significant heat addition to the system, even though there are many claims to that out there.

Brando457 said:
Wondering how much sand should I use for this tank? I don't want a DSB, but was thinking maybe 2 inches so about 100 pounds?

Should do the trick.

Check out marco rocks sand, 160 pounds will cost you $109 shipped, or you could get two 40 pound deals for about $60 shipped:

http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=44

I saw this sand at MACNA and really liked it, that's what's going to go in my 210 when I get it set up.

You can check out his site for base rock as well. I'm a fan of his rock. Still needs to be cured out like anything else, but in my opinion, it's well worth the money.

Salt - probably going to buy buckets from OG II

Just because I'm curious, did you decide on which salt you are going to go with? I use reef crystals at the moment, but am considering changing to tropic marin.

Skimmer/Sump I really still have no idea on what skimmer I am going to buy, I'd like to buy it used to save on costs, but may end up buying new. Also need to figure out how big to make the sump/find someone to either help make it or get baffles made.

Drop a "want to buy" thread out there with a price range you want to spend and the tank size you need it for. I know there has to be someone on here somewhere that has a decent skimmer for that tank that they can give you a deal on!

Powerheads I think I might bite the bullet after x-mas and buy 2 Vortechs those along with my 2 returns should be plenty of flow and offer peace of mind(Famous last words)

If I had the cash floating, believe me, I'd be ALL OVER vortechs! Saw them at MACNA in multiple different incarnations. (vortechs booth, Jake Adams presentation, couple of different vendors running them) They are amazing! You will definitely have plenty of flow with those puppies!

heaters I know they all pretty much do the same thing, but anyone have a favorite they use that is reliable? I'm going to do 2 x 150 which should be enough.

Good plan on multiple heaters. General rule I think if I'm remembering correctly is 5 watts per gallon? So you should be good there, especially running metal halides and a submersible return pump if you go that route.