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blange3's 180 upgrade
- Thread starter blange3
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Hey Bill, I want a CBB, are you target feeding him the blackworms or just introducing them into the current? Where are you getting the blackworms?
Paul B said:
Thats because he is feeding blackworms, I wonder where he got that idea? :
LOL, Paul. Hmmm, let me see. YOU didn't have anything to do with that now, did you?
Thanks Wendy! That's high praise considering you have one of the absolute nicest tanks I have ever seen!
PaulB, I always give you credit for the idea buddy. As a matter of fact I had just finished feeding blackworms before I read this post. As far as listening to the great PaulB goes, I'm not the only one. Rod of Rod's Food was handing out samples of the next product he is releasing at MACNA; fish eggs!
Matt, the CBB catches some in the current and then I target feed some more to make sure she gets enough. She is on and off again with the PE mysis so I want to make sure she gets enough.
Hey Dave, there are just a few small hammers in there. ;D
PaulB, I always give you credit for the idea buddy.
As a matter of fact I had just finished feeding blackworms before I read this post. As far as listening to the great PaulB goes, I'm not the only one. Rod of Rod's Food was handing out samples of the next product he is releasing at MACNA; fish eggs!Matt, the CBB catches some in the current and then I target feed some more to make sure she gets enough. She is on and off again with the PE mysis so I want to make sure she gets enough.
Hey Dave, there are just a few small hammers in there. ;D
Fish Eggs, huh? Yeah, I won one of the Rod's Food original blend, and he gave me one of the big packages of the fish eggs. The fish AND corals LOVE that stuff. Think the CBB will go for those?
And where would I even get black worms?
And where would I even get black worms?
Well, I'm nowhere near any of those, but I will check out the locals down here. Thanks!
I'm going to be posting some on various topics in the Advanced Reefkeeping Forum to share things I learned from various speakers at MACNA. But how is what I learned going to impact my tank? Well......
1) I'm lowering the temp to 76-77
2) I'm rinsing my frozen food
3) I bought an slick media reactor from Warner Research to run more carbon
4) I won't remove anymore hair algae by hand
5) I changed my flow pattern to have all pumps flow across the top of the tank in one direction
6) I'm going to spend more time reading books
Reasons and results to follow here and in other threads! ;D
1) I'm lowering the temp to 76-77
2) I'm rinsing my frozen food
3) I bought an slick media reactor from Warner Research to run more carbon
4) I won't remove anymore hair algae by hand
5) I changed my flow pattern to have all pumps flow across the top of the tank in one direction
6) I'm going to spend more time reading books
Reasons and results to follow here and in other threads! ;D
If you change your flow so its all one direction wont you get a build up of crap on the opposite side of your rocks? I kinda had it like that when I tried bare bottom and I noticed everything accumulated on the side of the rocks with no flow. That's why I thought flow from each side at separate times was good to eliminate the dead spots. I thought the goal was to try to get some of each... laminar, turbulent and opposed flow? Is this somethin new with it all in one direction? I missed this at Macna
aNickjr000 said:
I didn't hear the talk myself so others can chime in if I missed something, but there is a little more to it than just flow in one direction.
You are creating a circular flow by moving the top layer of water, which needs to be certain proportion of the cross section of the tank. The pumps need to move the water at least 2/3'rds the length of the tank. The idea is to get a reverse current across the bottom that sweeps it clean. The chaotic flow is a function of the the corals themselves diverting the water. There is a possibility of dead spots as the arrangement of the corals was made artificially. In nature there placement and shape would be a result of the existing flow pattern.
I have to say, I have less cyano today than I had prior to the change. There are a few dead spots, but they are small.
blange3 said:
You are both correct. The reason for moving the top layer of water is because that is the point of least resistance. The pump can push the most amount of water before colliding with rock, coral, etc. This flow travel across the top to the opposite side, down that wall and an undercurrent is formed in the opposite direction until it hits the wall again and is sent up to the original position, the pump. I had my doubts since the tank was small and had nothing but water in it, but when I did this at home, I was amazed how it really works. Even with the formations in my tank. I was so amazed that I went over to my brothers house and moved the return nozzles straight across the top and the same thing happened with no powerheads. My brother was amazed, he had been tweaking them to get rid of dead spots for about 2 years. Simply pointing them head on to the opposite wall created movement everywhere.
I took all powerheads off line Monday and installed 1 MP40 in the same spot that I had a Koralia 6 previously. I was advised not only from the EcoTech guys but also the speaker Jake Adams to put two in my 200 which has a footprint of 48" x 36" x 27". Let me tell you I could not believe the currents that were going on in there, but the Detritus that it kicked up
. Originally thinking it was the sand, I examined every square inch of the sand bed that I could see and the sand was not moving. I could not believe that The K6 did not pick any of this up. And better yet the vortech kept the particles suspended until they finally met up with my overflow and filter sock! It took ALL day, but by the end of the day my water was probably 95% clear again. I am very happy and impressed with just one MP40.Nick, I had the same thought as you when I got home and digested all of the thoughts thrown at me at MACNA. I wished I had thought about this at the workshop and evidentally nobody else did either or I would have asked the question to Jake. Thinking about the back side dead spot issue, I decided to hook up the other vortech on the opposite wall on Tuesday. When I was all installed, I turned the other one off(remember the only thing running all day and night). Water was clear with very little particulates in it at all(couldn't see them unless you were within 2 feet of tank). When I started the freshly installed one....whoosh....here we go again with the storm of particles, sandbed still not moving, which leads me to believe that a few big surface areas(rock formation) may have a slight dead spot that I couldn't see. I left this vortech on all day and the same thing, by then end of the day it cleared up.
So what I am going to do for the time being... I posted on RC and got an answer from Ecotech a little over an hour later that I want to hook both of these vortechs to my controller and have one turn on for an hour or two and then switch to the other one for an hour or two and possibly overlap for a little while to have both on and a little chaotic turbulence. The told me that this is ok and will not be a problem(stopping/starting) for the pump. Today I had less junk floating around including what I believe is either dinoflagellates or cyano( not sure).
Two cool things to note though. Yesterday a blue discosoma ric that I had lost floated to the front after 6 months I never knew it was back there and I blew out behind there regularly with a powerhead. The other thing to note is that as Jake stated, this gives you the opportunity to give your corals that need high flow high light one area and low flow low light the bottom of the tank and it really works.
Sorry for the long post and believe me it took me longer to type it, but I wanted to share my experiments and experience since the water flow workshop changed my way of thinking. Hope it helps you as well.
Taz
blange3 said:
Curious to see what you learned and I missed. Looking forward to you posting on these points soon.
Trying Rod's food, wonder if I should rinse that?
Taz
Interesting.... Maybe i'll try it out. I did it that way originally with the bare bottom but that was with just the return and a koralia. Now I have 2 more koralias on a wavemaker and a vortech to play with. So do you want the flow going from front to back or from side to side? Or does it matter? And Bill... Thanks for getting this idea in my head, It will be a few hours of messin with pumps and some cursing for me now. LOL love this hobby!
It was presented as side to side during the workshop. I'd imagine that front to back would work also, but be much more turbulant. I'm not saying that I wouldn't try it though.
Taz
Taz
I don't think front to back would be as effective or efficient according to the way Jake presented the workshop.
The idea was to get the pumps working more efficiently as well as create that circular "gyre" effect.
If a pump has the capability of reach across the surface 2/3 the length of the tank, and you place it front to back, it is now wasting its energy crashing against the front of the tank, and thus not building the sustained energy across the surface to create the circular "sweeping" needed underneath.
Also, because our tanks are (mostly) significantly longer than they were wide (front to back), you would need a heck of alot more pumps to cover the entire surface of the water.
Just my opinion though. Maybe someone can find Jake and convince him to chime in! LOL!
I'm running my pumps from left to right now, and have also adjusted my return lines in the overflow to point just at the surface and in the same direction as the powerheads.
What I found was that my pumps were not quite strong enough to reach the desired 2/3 length of the tank, and I was receiving less surface agitation at the far end of the tank. This corrected the problem.
In addition to seeing less cyano, I've also seen alot of detritus sitreed up where I thought I was getting to it myself by "storming" the tank regularly. I've also seen hair algae begin to recede, and have reduced the number of times I had to mag float my glass to get rid of the "junk" that was accumulating on the glass on the sides and even the back.
My corals seem fine, and my leather has even opened up more, and even with the linear flow, it seems to be happier and swaying back and forth more, where previously, it didn't seem to like the flow, and was kind of leavning to one side when it opened up.
My zoas seem happier, and even the little frag of Acan the folks at Mr. Coral gave me at Macna with my purchase (it wasn't doing so hot) has begun to expand a little, and seems alot less retreated than it did before.
Just my observations on the flow.
Sorry Bill, didn't want to hijack your thread, this should probably be posted in it's own thread somewhere! LOL!
Anyway, my experiment continues.
The idea was to get the pumps working more efficiently as well as create that circular "gyre" effect.
If a pump has the capability of reach across the surface 2/3 the length of the tank, and you place it front to back, it is now wasting its energy crashing against the front of the tank, and thus not building the sustained energy across the surface to create the circular "sweeping" needed underneath.
Also, because our tanks are (mostly) significantly longer than they were wide (front to back), you would need a heck of alot more pumps to cover the entire surface of the water.
Just my opinion though. Maybe someone can find Jake and convince him to chime in! LOL!
I'm running my pumps from left to right now, and have also adjusted my return lines in the overflow to point just at the surface and in the same direction as the powerheads.
What I found was that my pumps were not quite strong enough to reach the desired 2/3 length of the tank, and I was receiving less surface agitation at the far end of the tank. This corrected the problem.
In addition to seeing less cyano, I've also seen alot of detritus sitreed up where I thought I was getting to it myself by "storming" the tank regularly. I've also seen hair algae begin to recede, and have reduced the number of times I had to mag float my glass to get rid of the "junk" that was accumulating on the glass on the sides and even the back.
My corals seem fine, and my leather has even opened up more, and even with the linear flow, it seems to be happier and swaying back and forth more, where previously, it didn't seem to like the flow, and was kind of leavning to one side when it opened up.
My zoas seem happier, and even the little frag of Acan the folks at Mr. Coral gave me at Macna with my purchase (it wasn't doing so hot) has begun to expand a little, and seems alot less retreated than it did before.
Just my observations on the flow.
Sorry Bill, didn't want to hijack your thread, this should probably be posted in it's own thread somewhere! LOL!
Anyway, my experiment continues.
No problem Matt, your hijacks are always welcome!
I agree with your opinion on the front to back, unless of course it's a cube. ;D
I am still seeing a reduction in cyano and decrease of hair algae. I broke my new 'no mechanical removal of hair algae rule though. The new flow loosened some clumps up and I got them with the turkey baster before drifting away.
BTW the reason for not removing bryopsis, not sure if it applies to other hair algae, is that the cytoplasm released forms complete new cells in 20 minutes after you break off the stands of algae.
I agree with your opinion on the front to back, unless of course it's a cube. ;D
I am still seeing a reduction in cyano and decrease of hair algae. I broke my new 'no mechanical removal of hair algae rule though. The new flow loosened some clumps up and I got them with the turkey baster before drifting away.
BTW the reason for not removing bryopsis, not sure if it applies to other hair algae, is that the cytoplasm released forms complete new cells in 20 minutes after you break off the stands of algae.
Paul B
NJRC Member
I agree with most of these things which is unusual because I usually don't agree with much 8)
Circulation is of course important especially eliminating dead places. On some very healthy reefs the currents far surpass anything that we could ever acomplish in a tank.
One thing that may be a problem (I havn't decided yet) is that in the sea the current varies with weather and tides. Our tanks usually remain constant. Corals are used to firece currects where many of them remain retracted then quieter periods where the polyps are extended to feed. I don't know if they need this action but I feel that in a tank, it would be good to have a lot of circulation for part of the day which would suspend detritus then en easier time when we feed the fish. I turn off my pumps to feed and I always target feed everything. I would never just put food in the tank.
Different animals get different foods and I want all of it to go into a fish or coral, my hermit crabs could send out for pizza if they can't find anything.
They are over ten years old so they must buy a lot of pizza.
I also create a typhoon a few times a year with my diatom filter. I fit a restriction on it and make a very effective powerwasher. I blow out all of the pores in the rock
And stir up the gravel down to the bottom (I don't have a DSB so I could do this)
I think this one act is the main reason my tank lasted so long. You would be amazed what comes out of 40 year old rocks. Then I diatom the tank clean.
I am also not sold on the idea that more circulation will eliminate cyano. I have some cyano under my gravel but I also have a little on the outflows of my powerheads and in the tubes of my RUGF which get more current than anyplace in the tank.
The little cyano does not bother me as I have seen it on pristine reefs in the Caymans.
It is as natural as algae which I consider a healthful thing, not a disease as most people do. Of course I don't want to have it on my corals so I have an agreement with it to only grow in my algae trough.
As for Rod's food, I have never tried it but I have only heard good things about it.
Have a great day.
Paul