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Full spectrum food advice

Mark_C

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I do have a few professional (related) degrees, one of which is nutrition (though used as much as a square hockey puck).
In the frustration over buying multiple foods, and the delving into the occasional making my own, I figured I'd try to come up with a food I could freeze dry (I have the capability) that would supply a full spectrum to fish (carnivore and omnivore), specialty fish, corals, and various cope/amphipods in a mixed reef tank. I've been doing a lot of research and obsessing about this over the past few weeks.

Nutrition between species is pretty standard (A,C,E digestible antiox, B energy and blood, potassium/sodim for muscle, etc) be you fish, dog, or human. Its the balance thats the concern.
So, I've had the tomes open on the desk, the screens open on the comp, and a call or two to a vet bud I know for advice.
We knew the needs, but as theres no research papers on an overall mixed reef diet, I had to go it on my own.

Main concern was a full spectrum reef feeder with minimal phosphates while keeping mild nitrates that wont overload a system (but keep at least minimal levels).
And, of course, the ability to feed everything in a reef tank.

I've come up with a pretty effective mix, one dry cube a day (to be re-hydrated).
I used 70% of my final mix criteria over the past 2 weeks and its working fantastic. Algae decreased, coral growth, fish are fanatic for it.
I just received 3 variations on seaweed today, some dried cyclops, and am waiting 2 more packages before I put the final mix together.

I'm wondering if anyone has anything 'out of the ordinary' they feed their fish that I might try out, why they do it, and benefits seen - looking at you Paul B. Already have black/white/bloodworms covered. Earthworms are a tempting prospect but due to their diet they give off tons of phosphates and potential contaminants.

So, nutrition basics covered, just looking for any extra 'zoom' options before I process the first big batch. All natural please, needs to come from a natural food source, not from a commercial blend.

Thanks.


P.S. What I've pulled together for the basic nutrition if anyone has interest:
Vit A (rhodopsin, mucus, cell defense), B1 (metabolics, muscle/nerve development, mucus), B2 (finnage, blood, nutrient absorption), B3 (finnage, appetite, protein digestion), B5 (hormone production, metabolism, gill O2 exchange), B6 (enzymes, metabolism, nerves, reproduction), B12 (anti-anemic), Biotin (energy, muscle, nerves, gut bacteria), C (absorption, finnage, bone and tooth, immunity, healing, digestion, stress), D3 (co-factor nutrient utilization), E (cells, enzymes, antioxidants, immunity. lipid/hufa), K (blood formation/clotting), M (blood formation, metabolism), Choline (fat production, coloration), Carotenoids (immunity, antioxidant, fin regeneration, coloration), Phosphorus (growth, finnage, metabolism, scales, nerves, energy, egg production), Mg (muscle, enzymes, respiration, osmoregulation), Ca (bone, scales, finnage, teeth, equilibrium, metabolism, clotting, enzymes, hormone regulation), Trace elements (growth, cartiladge and bone, metabolism, enzymes, sexual development/function, egg development, anti anemic, parasitic recovery).
 
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Mark_C

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Unsure. RIght now its about getting it done.
I'm using AB+, and some frozen, and the occasional flake or pellet for variety, and the occasional seaweed sheet, occasional reef roid type mix, etc...
Just want one thing I can drop in the tank that covers all bases.
I'd like to say its because I'm lazy, but I'm dropping so much damn research into this that I guess I'm not.
Plus I ordered an industrial grade dehydrator during a bourbon fueled research session.
 

Jamie S

NJRC Member
Unsure. RIght now its about getting it done.
I'm using AB+, and some frozen, and the occasional flake or pellet for variety, and the occasional seaweed sheet, occasional reef roid type mix, etc...
Just want one thing I can drop in the tank that covers all bases.
I'd like to say its because I'm lazy, but I'm dropping so much damn research into this that I guess I'm not.
Plus I ordered an industrial grade dehydrator during a bourbon fueled research session.
I've actually been thinking about this myself recently. An all in one frozen food that will cover all bases. Over the break i may make a few small batches to test out.
 

mnat

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Will be very interested to follow along and see how it goes. I know people use garlic to get picky eaters inticied into eating food but the long term effects of that have shown not to be positive. Selcon? We used to use that a lot but again I think it has fallen out of favor. What is your food size range?
 

Mark_C

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Base is going to start as a phyto/zooplankton suspension with freeze dried cyclops and rotifiers, then we work up from there.

Ran some nutritional profiles on various seaweeds and I can incorporate 3 types (Alaria/Wakami, Chondrus Crispus, Laminaria) to cover the majority of the needs of the herbivores (A, B1, B2, B5, E, K, M, choline, cartenoids) but I'm going to need to supplement with romaine/spinach to cover biotin (B7).

I've narrowed it down to 22 ingredient minimum to cover every need (all the way up to blue crab and pacific cod), now have to do the math on nutrient balance.

I'm considering incorporating trace garlic, not much, as it boosts B1, B2, B3, B6, B9, E, and trace elements, so its a nice solid compliment for the B bases and helps flavor, but I'm still in considerations on it.

Biggest concern now is sourcing a viable D3 digestible by fish, there are options but they're expensive. Certain types of shrimp are a good source, but there availability is limited. Actually contacted a Japanese supplier via Alibaba, we'll see how that goes.

I oft use Selcon, but I'm trying to go all natural nutrition and the recipe covers it. I do have krill in the recipe for aminos, phosphorus, and carotenoids, but I may try to source a gut loaded variation.

I've got delivery of a large dehydrator tonight, need to distract Carla from the front door. If I can manage to get it set up without her noticing I can always claim that the large stainless steel machine has always been here, she must never had noticed.
 
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I wish I had some ideas to bring to the table here but Ive got nothing lol. However I am very interested in trying your mix if you decided to sell it.
 

DEL

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mark, I'm already sold. let me know what you want for some packs and I'm in brotha!!!!
 

Mark_C

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Figured I'd update this as a progress note.

So I've been dehydrating organic kale, spinach, and romaine. Never realized the time it takes to do this. To dry out, pre-freeze drying, takes about 24 hours and the leaves take a lot of space in the dehydrator, so its been about 7-8 days to dry out the amount needed for the initial bulk run.

So far I've managed to collect all my outsourced materials, all organic or natural:
Dry rotifiers, flash frozen bloodworms, steam distilled garlic bulb (opted to use a trace amount in each cube for B and E benefits and attraction to picky fish), alaria seaweed, wakami seaweed, chondrus crispus seaweed, laminaria seaweed, gut loaded brine, spinach/kale/romaine mix as above, dried copepods, phytoplankton suspension, dried zooplankton, mysis.

On the home front I'm raising and gut loading krill in the back room as well as starting a small phytoplankton factory.

Have a shop in town that does organic seafoods, so I have a bunch of 'fresh stuff' to pick up tomorrow including blue crab, cod, clams, scallops, squid, shrimp, and a few other 'secret ingredients'. Looks like this is going to be about 24-27 item food build.

Going to work out some 'biomath' on proportions tonight to figure vitamin/mineral profiles and percentages of each ingredient needed. Figure I should be able to put together the complete mix by Monday night. Will dehydrate for a few days and hopefully by Thursday will be able to start freeze drying (which will take another week or two).

May need a few 'testers' if anyone is willing in a week or two. Would be happy to mail out a few days food to some folks for opinions and feedback on fish reactions to it.
My tanks are thriving on the partial mix I made and I'm sorta hyped about this at this point.
 

Mark_C

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Update. All went terribly.

So, I mixed most of the items for a test run and ran them in the dehydrator for about 30 hours.
The wet foods did not totally dry, which was expected.
They achieved about 70% moisture loss, then I was going to freeze dry them the rest of the way in the freezer.
But, their moisture was partially absorbed by the seaweeds, which dampened them just before they were dehydrated, so I ended up with little seaweed rocks which won't rehydrate as they're too dense.
Tried a second round where I dried the entire batch as a sheet which I could cut down.
Same level of fail.

To do this properly I need to get this properly freeze dried with an industrial machine.
There's a place in Newark thet'll do it, but they need a 100 pound minimum and it aint cheap to do.

So!
Next...

I'm thinking this may well work as a frozen as well.
It wipes the fact that I wanted a dry food to store in the cabinet and rehydrate, but, as frozen it can be dropped directly in tank.
Problem is theres a lot of frozens out there, though none as thought out as this I believe.

I'm going to order a few blister packs and see how it goes.
 
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