I'm a clown killer

[junk]

14g biocube with a picasso b, yellow blenny and orange firefish. Also has some coral ranging from acan to gsp to frogspawn. Parameters seem good with 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate, 480 calcium, 8.2ph, 1.024Sg and 77 deg.

This would be the second clown that's died in the last 2 months (this one replaced the last). No visible wounds or spots except for one white patch near the face. He's been fine, but tonight when I came home he was just piddling around the bottom which he never does. The last one went quick, so now I'm worried.

I've linked 2 short videos (sorry for the crappy quality - it was taken with a point and shoot).

He nibbled at the Rod's food for a second or two and ignored it after that. He's been in there about a month now and all was cool till today. Last Sunday I did about a 40% water change but I usually do about 20% a week.

I don't have a quarantine tank because this is the only tank I have for now.

Yikes. Any help? Thx.

vid1

vid2

 

[Whitebird1]

That's a shame, nice fish, paramiters look good?? Sometimes fish just do not make it.
was he from the same source? Only thing I could see was maybe he was a bit thin!

 

[mott768]

Sounds like it could be clown fish Disease.... it kills quickly and spreads amoung other clowns in the same tank, one treatment I know of is FW dip but that didn't work when I tried it. There is others like Formalin bath and a few others, do a search on Brooklynella aka clown fish Disease... good luck hope he makes it.


Also do not add any more clowns for awhile until your tank is free of it, not sure how long it takes.

here
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/aabrooklynella.htm

&
http://www.fishvet.com/Brooklynella.htm

 

[junk]

Sounds like it could be clown fish Disease.... it kills quickly and spreads amoung other clowns in the same tank, one treatment I know of is FW dip but that didn't work when I tried it. There is others like Formalin bath and a few others, do a search on Brooklynella aka clown fish Disease... good luck hope he makes it.


Also do not add any more clowns for awhile until your tank is free of it, not sure how long it takes.

here
http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/ichparasiticdiseases/a/aabrooklynella.htm

&
http://www.fishvet.com/Brooklynella.htm

Yeah, same LFS. I'll try the dip route. Thanks.

 

[junk]

Well, looks like I won't have to dip him. He's gone. He was fine this morning. Came home and he looked bad and is now gone.

Second darn picasso we've lost now. I think we're done with them for awhile. If it is clownfish disease, do I need to worry about the canary blenny or orange firefish?

Thx.

 

[mott768]

Sorry to hear about the clown....Unfortunately Brooklynella is a fast killer. Brooklynella only affects clown fish, hence the name clown fish disease, read the links I sent you there is a time period. Also I wouldn't get anymore clowns from that store.

 

[calaxa]

Brook is not specific to clownfish. Any fish can get brooklynella. The symptoms on this fish do not appear to be brook. It is very common in wild clowns and hence the name clownfish disease. I would find it very hard to believe that ORA clowns would be carriers especially picassos. I have a suspicion it is something else.

 

[junk]

Thanks. I'm really bummed. They've both died quicky in the same exact manner. I hope it's not anything we're doing.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Oh how sad. I just watched the videos. :'(

How are your other 2 fish doing? I know really nothing about brook, so I can't say anything. Please feel free to knock me silly, but could it have been Oodinium (velvet)? He was in horrible shape.

 

[calaxa]

Are you using a refractometer for your SG? Has it been properly calibrated? Watching the videos, it looks like poor acclimation from sudden changes in environmental factors. Without further info, it looks to me like fish had kidney failure due to sudden increase in salinity. You mentioned you recently did a water change before this happened. Was this the case with the first clown?

 

[mott768]

Brook is not specific to clownfish. Any fish can get brooklynella. The symptoms on this fish do not appear to be brook. It is very common in wild clowns and hence the name clownfish disease. I would find it very hard to believe that ORA clowns would be carriers especially picassos. I have a suspicion it is something else.

Other fish are carriers of Brooklynella, if the store mixes ora clown with wilds and a clown in the system has it or there is other fish carrying it and they mix them with ora clowns then they would get it.....

 

[junk]

Yes, I use a refractometer and the level was equal to the water in the tank (both 1.023). I calibrated it about 2 months ago, but I guess it's worth checking again. Thing is, that the water change was 5 days prior to this happening. Then again, maybe it got worse and worse. Man, it really stinks watching a fish suffer like that.

 

[calaxa]

Brook is not specific to clownfish. Any fish can get brooklynella. The symptoms on this fish do not appear to be brook. It is very common in wild clowns and hence the name clownfish disease. I would find it very hard to believe that ORA clowns would be carriers especially picassos. I have a suspicion it is something else.

Other fish are carriers of Brooklynella, if the store mixes ora clown with wilds and a clown in the system has it or there is other fish carrying it and they mix them with ora clowns then they would get it.....

Agreed but because of the high price of picassos, I do not know any LFS that will mix a wild caught clown with a picasso. Basic economics. Almost all LFS I see will have ORA fish in isolated systems. That's why I would discount brook on any ORA fish. Only a really poorly run business would risk losing such a high margin product just to save space.

 

[mott768]

Don't know what fish stores you go to but just about everyone I've ever been in has a central system for the fish, even the LFS that use the mars and like systems has at least 4 tanks on the same system. For a LFS to tie up a complete system for just clowns is highly unlikely. Also they can cross contaminate using nets and specimen containers amongst other ways.

The way he described the fish acting and after looking at the pick I would say Brooklynella. Even if I'm wrong it's better to be safe than sorry, like I said, I wouldn't get another clown from that place.

I have personal experience with brooklynella and I got it from Liveaquaria from 2 black clowns I ordered, the 2 guy's died within 3 days, one died within 24 hours, the other lasted longer after a freshwater bath but still suffered the same fate. They infected my other clowns that I had for 3 years, it killed them within 4 days, even after all their suggestions on treatment I couldn't save them, they had me freeze and ship the clowns to them at their cost and they confirmed Brooklynella.


junk,

I say wait awhile and if you decide to get more clowns get them from a differant store. In the mean time to play it safe pick up some pepso food and mix it with the food you feed your fish for a couple of weeks. Just a little pinch will do

 

[junk]

The way he described the fish acting and after looking at the pick I would say Brooklynella. Even if I'm wrong it's better to be safe than sorry, like I said, I wouldn't get another clown from that place.

I have personal experience with brooklynella and I got it from Liveaquaria from 2 black clowns I ordered, the 2 guy's died within 3 days, one died within 24 hours, the other lasted longer after a freshwater bath but still suffered the same fate. They infected my other clowns that I had for 3 years, it killed them within 4 days, even after all their suggestions on treatment I couldn't save them, they had me freeze and ship the clowns to them at their cost and they confirmed Brooklynella.


junk,

I say wait awhile and if you decide to get more clowns get them from a differant store. In the mean time to play it safe pick up some pepso food and mix it with the food you feed your fish for a couple of weeks. Just a little pinch will do

Thanks for all the help. That's what we'll do. I appreciate all the help from everyone.

 

[calaxa]

Mott,

I think you're giving junk mixed advice. If you are correct in your diagnosis that this is brooklynella, all remaining fish are at risk and treatment should be administered to them to prevent more casualties (formalin baths is the correct treatment, fw dips only slow down the disease). Your assertion that brook is genus specific is not correct as other fish can get this disease quite easily and are not just carriers. I think your initial diagnosis of brook is incorrect though as I saw no mucus sloughing off the clown in the videos. However, junk is only giving us a small view to make a determination so you still could be right...just I did not see it from what he gave us. I could not see the white patch that junk described. I am guessing junk has had this fish for more than a week which if it were brook, that fish would have succumbed before that time in a 14G. Avoiding the possible source of the problem is good advice but it's incomplete if we are basing it on your diagnosis of brook.

I did not say that the clownfish tanks were isolated. The ORA systems are tied together at the 3 stores I frequent and are isolated from the other tanks. ORA does force their retailers to buy a minimum shipment of fish so it can easily fill a few tanks. I know this based on the salinity on the tanks (I guess ORA likes to ship in low SG). You are correct that there may be cross contamination from equipment.

junk,

If you think mott's diagnosis is correct, then you should treat your blenny and firefish with formalin baths. You should avoid that store or at least not buy clowns from there. If you disagree with his diagnosis, there is some other pathogen in your system. What it is needs better evidence to make a determination.

 

[mgonz]

Re: I'm a clown killer

I had somewhat of the same exp with the same exact fish. I bought a pair that were eating and looked very healthy. Took them home and for the first week they looked really good. Then they stopped eating and looked as if the skin was coming off them. I did a fresh water dip and dipped them in two products called melafix and pimafix. The treatment was the advise given to me by chris at ocean gallery. I did the process twice a day for five days and the slowly came around. About a month later the smaller of the two stopped eating and started to show symptoms similar to yours. Again chris recommended a fresh water dip and to dip them in the two products i previously mentioned and i managed to save him. He said it could have been internal parasites or clown fish disease. I believe the melafix contains the chemical formalin Which calaxa is refering to. Sorry to hear about your loss. They are very nice fish

 

[mott768]

Calaxa, if you would have read my previous posts you would have seen I posted links for treatments including Formalin, I just stated how I treated and what I did. I also said a FW dip is only one way that didn't work for me : dude read the posts.

I'm not going to get into it here this isn't the place for a debate if you don't agree with my diagnosis than just say so and say what you think it is and what you think he should do. The whole purpose of this thread is to help junk with his problem.

 

[calaxa]

mgonz,

They don't contain formalin. It would warn you on bottle if they did since formaldehyde is a carcinogen and a standard warning must be included. I'm surprised it worked for you but because your clowns lived for a month, I would really exclude brooklynella otherwise you got some of the strongest clowns ever. It is probably some internal parasite and again surprised the melafix/primafix did anything. I've never used melafix/primafix but I know the reviews are mixed and API really doesn't offer any conclusions as to what it actually does. I am just leary of any medication that no one including manufacturer can tell me how it works. I'm glad it worked for you but I think next time, since you were doing the proper protocol anyway, get the real thing.

Mott,

I put my clarification via PM. Let's not debate this in public.

Edited. Please take further discussion to PM.