So i have lost 3 clams and part of a coral

[jtravapd]

in the past two days... all my water tests came back exactly the same...the only difference in the water is i added a bag of phosphate remover, (which i had in a bucket of RO water with pump blowing on it for a day)..i dont know if that could be the problem, but its the only new thing i added when i started to see stuff dying...granted the three clams were baby clams, but im gonna flip out if i lose one of the big guys...I took the bag out, and did a small water change...hopefully it stops there...

 

[ricwilli]

You have to be kidding right? I have read yours posts on the problems that you've been having and I suggest that you remove all your corals and fix your water param. Have someone hold them for you or sell them before you kill everything. I hope you removed the three clams that died. Please do a 50% water change as other have advised.

 

[ricwilli]

Another thing. This should be in your other thread that you started. It makes it kind of difficult to keep track if people are helping you.

 

[jtravapd]

Another thing. This should be in your other thread that you started. It makes it kind of difficult to keep track if people are helping you.

I'm happy for the help but everyone is telling me to do something different. My tank was running with no deaths until I tested the water and tried to fix it with peoples recommendations. I'm gonna stick with just water changes. taking out 180 gallons worth of coral is not an option.

 

[calaxa]

Everyone agreed with water changes. You didn't like that answer so you asked for suggestions. We suggested large water changes. You opted for small. That is fine but it will obviously go slower. You aren't tackling the source of the problem. That nitrate built up for a reason and it's more than just poor water maintenance. You wanted a faster solution. Chemical does work but only in drastic situations. Your nitrate level was pretty high and chemical was not a bad choice. But they do have their shortcomings. They affect the system in ways you cannot predict. Now you say the nitrate is exactly the same. I am wondering if you are testing correctly. How old is your kit? What brand is it? These are all factors that could affect your result.

The timeline says you did have deaths. Everything new you introduced would die (and of course add nitrate into your system). Everyone in there already is accustomed to it. Instead of waiting to correct your params for SPS, you went and got a few. We told you to hold off. Small water changes aren't gonna cut it if you really have those nitrates. Have you ever been to a smoker's lounge at an airport? That's what this is like. You are using that tiny little fan hoping it can clear the room of the smoke. If you ever been inside one, you'll know, soon as you open the door, you don't even need to light up. Breathing the second hand smoke is about half a packs worth in one shot.

What has phosphate got to do with nitrate? If anything, at this juncture, phosphate probably will help your system. With phosphate, algae would grow, which would act as a slow nitrate sponge. Have you tested for phosphates? Don't get me wrong, there's only upside with using phosban (and no downside I can think of), but this is irrelevant to your immediate problem. I wouldn't care that one of my windows are broken when I got a broken roof.

Sorry if this came off as condescending, which it was not intended to. It's just you have posted this in 3 or 4 threads and I keep telling you what the answer is. I know a 100G water change sucks, but that is the best solution. You mucked with the rocks (and probably released more nitrates) which I don't understand. You said you tried a nitrate sponge (which is ok but runs risk of just leeching it right back in). Focus on the one crucial item, then work on the rest later.

 

[concept3]

Another thing. This should be in your other thread that you started. It makes it kind of difficult to keep track if people are helping you.

........but everyone is telling me to do something different. My tank was running with no deaths until I tested the water and tried to fix it with peoples recommendations. I'm gonna stick with just water changes........

This is true, so it is up to us to take some of these recommended "fixes" and create something that will work for you. Slower changes are better in the long run, stability is the overlying theme for any reef tank, softy or hard or fowlr. Your tank did not start out with a high nitrate content as this is built up over time, so your organisms may have gotten accustomed to it.

Zoos, softies and the like are able to thrive in "less than pristine" water....heck, zooanthidae colonies are harvested near sewage runoffs, lol. Clams do ok in a little bit of nutrient water, they are filter feeders after all (especially the younger specimens)....

When large changes are incorporated such as adding 50 lbs of liverock (that was in a separate thread), using chemical this, adding that, cleaning the sand, adding SPS (which ended up dying), things can only get worse. These are the quick changes that we need to try and avoid. I see that you have experience in the hobby already (nice tank), but it is up to us to take away the important stuff and make an educated conclusion or fix as each of our tanks are different.

I suggested a large water change (but with caution), I don't know if you read that in detail (i type a lot). I saw posts here and there about further changes and more recommendations, so I just thought, "well, if he doesn't wanna do it, then he has a reason"....

Your nitrates are partially trapped and/or generated within the rock. Water changes ARE and WILL be your best fix with this. I hate to quote the cheesy saying but "the solution to pollution is dilution"

When we try to give you answers, take them for what they're worth and create a regimen that works for you.

Best,
Merv R

 

[jtravapd]

Everyone agreed with water changes. You didn't like that answer so you asked for suggestions. We suggested large water changes. You opted for small. That is fine but it will obviously go slower. You aren't tackling the source of the problem. That nitrate built up for a reason and it's more than just poor water maintenance. You wanted a faster solution. Chemical does work but only in drastic situations. Your nitrate level was pretty high and chemical was not a bad choice. But they do have their shortcomings. They affect the system in ways you cannot predict. Now you say the nitrate is exactly the same. I am wondering if you are testing correctly. How old is your kit? What brand is it? These are all factors that could affect your result.

The timeline says you did have deaths. Everything new you introduced would die (and of course add nitrate into your system). Everyone in there already is accustomed to it. Instead of waiting to correct your params for SPS, you went and got a few. We told you to hold off. Small water changes aren't gonna cut it if you really have those nitrates. Have you ever been to a smoker's lounge at an airport? That's what this is like. You are using that tiny little fan hoping it can clear the room of the smoke. If you ever been inside one, you'll know, soon as you open the door, you don't even need to light up. Breathing the second hand smoke is about half a packs worth in one shot.

What has phosphate got to do with nitrate? If anything, at this juncture, phosphate probably will help your system. With phosphate, algae would grow, which would act as a slow nitrate sponge. Have you tested for phosphates? Don't get me wrong, there's only upside with using phosban (and no downside I can think of), but this is irrelevant to your immediate problem. I wouldn't care that one of my windows are broken when I got a broken roof.

Sorry if this came off as condescending, which it was not intended to. It's just you have posted this in 3 or 4 threads and I keep telling you what the answer is. I know a 100G water change sucks, but that is the best solution. You mucked with the rocks (and probably released more nitrates) which I don't understand. You said you tried a nitrate sponge (which is ok but runs risk of just leeching it right back in). Focus on the one crucial item, then work on the rest later.

i would gladly do a 150 gallon water change if i could, but its not possible. the water temperture change alone would probably kill everything in the tank..thats why i chose to do smaller ones..the sps was purchased online so when it arrived in the mail i had no option other then to put it in the tank. One frag survived the other four died. I did 3 water changes this week..i will keep up doing this like you have recommended as i think this is the best way to go. I took out the phosphate remover. I was getting alittle agitated because everyone has their way of doing something so i hope i didn't come off rude to you,but in one post someone would say something and in the next line someone would tell me something that completely contradicted it..lol..I really feel like the recent problem (clam deaths) had to do with the phsophate remover. I know that sounds crazy, but i noticed certain corals closed up when the bag went in, and then the next two days i had the clam deaths...then one stalk on a coral died..i removed the bag, and i will see if it makes a difference..it does say on the bucket to be careful that it certain corals will not like the chemical and to rinse it well before putting it in the tank...On a more lighter note....i spent an hour last nigth with a fishing hook and fishing line trying to catch my domino damsel..lollol...no luck...lol...

 

[concept3]

i would gladly do a 150 gallon water change if i could, but its not possible. the water temperture change alone would probably kill everything in the tank..thats why i chose to do smaller ones.

UGH, I hate quoting myself- excerpt taken from here:
http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=14803.0

water changes- In my opinion, a 40%-50% water change will drastically reduce the nitrates in the tank. Please keep in mind that this is my opinion only, and be careful in attempting that. ALL your new water needs to be close, especially your temp, pH and dKH. These three could quite possibly have a negative impact on the tank inhabitants. When I had to do a massive water change like that, I started "culturing" my freshly made saltwater by adding about 1 gallon siphoned tank water to every 20 gallons of freshly made saltwater. This water was circulated in a holding tank for at least 24-48 hours to have some kind of bacterial colonization, I took this time to adjust pH, temp and dKH. BUT that was me. Again, careful with huge swings like that.

 

[calaxa]

It's not that you were getting mixed advice. The problem is you're tackling too many issues. Focus on the nitrates first and foremost. The nitrate concentration is dangerously high even for fish. Some softies will start withering while others will like it (to a point). Ok, forget about the dead SPS. They're dead and nothing you can do about it. The clams also are gone. Lesson learned (hope they weren't maximas...that's a costly lesson). Forget them. Introduce no more livestock till you have this under control. I hear you that 100 G is unwieldy and 150G is even more so. Is there any possibility that you can run without return/skimmer and drain down the tank to halfway mark? If yes, there's your solution to the 50% water change. Add back the water slowly. keep circ pumps going but do not feed...no sump/return etc. If this is not possible, continue your regimen of 25G changes daily or twice daily if possible. Ten water changes you should be around the 15 ppm area and manageable at least. After that correction, then focus on other solutions. Forget nitrate sponge. It's the lazy solution. We don't know what it might do to your system. Only after the nitrate is manageable, add some macro if you don't have. Do not stir and more sand or move any more rocks/rubble. That wlll only drive nitrates back up. Forget about phosphate for now. That will be a different day. Phosphate is liveable. Just leads to nuisance algae/cyano but again...table that problem. Good luck and have patience.

I would not add any more livestock at all for a few weeks after nitrates have settled. No frags, no fish, nothing. It's not worth going through all this heartache again.

Do concept3's method if possible. Invest in rubbermaid containers/stock tanks for aging the salt and making it the correct temp.

 

[cmsurfr22]

i would gladly do a 150 gallon water change if i could, but its not possible. the water temperture change alone would probably kill everything  in the tank..thats why i chose to do smaller ones..

i still recommend the %50 water changes. use a heater to match the temp of the tank to the temp of the water you will use to do the water change.

if you don't want to do %50 water changes do more %25 water changes. i would play around with the water change calc on RC: http://reefcentral.com/calc/RODICalc.php

that will tell you how pure your water will be after a number of water changes.

25% water changes:


Week    % Pure  % Non-Pure
1 25% 75%
2 44% 56%
3 58% 42%
4 68% 32%
5 76% 24%
6 82% 18%
7 87% 13%
8 90% 10%
9 93% 8%
10 94% 6%
11 96% 4%
12 97% 3%
13 98% 2%
14 98% 2%
15 99% 1%
16 99% 1%


50% water changes:

Week    % Pure  % Non-Pure
1 50% 50%
2 75% 25%
3 88% 13%
4 94% 6%
5 97% 3%
6 98% 2%
7 99% 1%
8 100% 0%

 

[ricwilli]

Hey jtravapd, I haven't seen your tank until Merv mentioned it. I guess removing all the coral is not a good idea.

Nice tank by the way.

 

[jtravapd]

Hey jtravapd, I haven't seen your tank until Merv mentioned it. I guess removing all the coral is not a good idea.

Nice tank by the way.

no problem...although if i break it down i could replace it with a bigger tank...lol.. ;D ;D

 

[duijver]

Hey jtravapd, I haven't seen your tank until Merv mentioned it. I guess removing all the coral is not a good idea.

Nice tank by the way.

no problem...although if i break it down i could replace it with a bigger tank...lol.. ;D ;D

I'm guessing that's a joke since you said u can't handle the existing water change? : -)