what's the real deal on the captive bred fish industry?

[lotekfish]

First of all, for anyone who hates reading novels, you might want to move on.

I’m trying to get some perspective on the captive-bred fish industry because I’ve found the reality of actually acquiring these fish somewhat frustrating. First, maybe a little background on myself since I’m a new member here. I just turned 40 last week, I’m new to reefkeeping, and my wife and I are environmental do-gooders. I won’t elaborate much but we both live and work in CC Philly, she walks to work at a non-profit, I ride my bike to work as an architect at a firm that does primarily “green” architecture. We buy mostly organic foods, recycle almost everything, rarely ever drive. You get the idea. We don’t preach to others about it, it’s just our lifestyle and we’re not perfect, but we try.

A year ago I became interested in aquariums again after a 25 year hiatus from when I kept guppies with my father as a kid. After researching like crazy I made two decisions: 1. I was going to have a saltwater tank because I always wanted one when I was young, 2. I was going to do everything I could to minimize the impact of my hobby on the environment. So far this has worked great and I’ve really enjoyed the challenges. I make DIY cement rock which is dirt cheap and fun, all my corals are from frags and my two fish so far are tank-bred clowns.

Now I’ve seemed to have hit a wall in the fish department. Looking at websites like ORA there seems to be dozens of fish “successfully” bred, but none of the LFS near Philly carry anything but clowns. Worse, the LFS have all been very unreceptive to my inquiries about getting more captive bred stock, giving me vague non answers (when they bother to answer phone calls or emails at all) that basically amount to “We get what we can get, and right now we don’t have much, but we plan to get some more at some point in the future.”

What’s the deal? Is the supply of captive bred fish just very limited? Too expensive? Are customers just not interested? Are the shops just not interested? Is this the nature of fish stores, the “we get what we get” attitude? I can’t even find reliable sources online (ORA doesn't sell direct)and I’m not that keen on mail order fish, not to mention the $30 shipping I’d have to pay for a $15 fish.

Is my fish buying over after two clowns and now I just frag corals like crazy to fill up the tank? Not a bad option. Or do I just stop obsessing and buy whatever I want, hoping the reefs will be able to survive the loss of “just one more little fish”?

Anybody have some local insight into this issue?

Thanks a ton, you guys and gals are a great resource here,

James

 

[reefsandrotts]

I don't have the phone number but you can contact fisharium in boonton nj,
he has a huge captive breeding facility outside of nj. he pulls from
he has some tangs,cardnals,wrasse,gobies.
HTH

 

[DaveK]

What’s the deal? Is the supply of captive bred fish just very limited? Too expensive? Are customers just not interested? Are the shops just not interested? Is this the nature of fish stores, the “we get what we get” attitude?

As I see this issue, there are several factors involved. First, many typical LFSs just are not interested. Captive bread SW fish tend to be a lot more expensive than their wild caught counterparts. For your typical LFS, this means those more expensive captive raised fish are just not going to sell, so they don't get stocked.

Also, until recently, meaning the last 3 or 4 years, captive raised fish often looked terrible. For example, clowns that were captive raised often looked dull brown, and had gaps in their stripes. They didn't look as good as the wild caught fish. This has changed today.

Corals are another matter. There are a massive amount of frags available, and with many corals, especially the soft corals, it's easy to fill up a tank.

 

[AnDom1]

Hi James

Your fish buying days are not over...Captive bred fish are generally stocked at the larger (and often more expensive) retailers. While it is true that most will stock the more popular and relatively less expensive species such as clowns, they do stock several of the others such as the many beautiful Red Sea pseudos.Absolutely Fish in Clifton,NJ comes immediately to mind and I'm sure other NJRC members will refer more.Some of the more knowledgable but smaller SW oriented stores will occasionally carry them, but the economics are very unfavorable as the price differential between captive vs. wild caught specimens is vey large. Hence, the relative un-availability of the more exotic captive-bred species in smaller outlets.

The key is to visit a lot of retailers (which you will over time) and based on your experiences with them, develop relationships
that can be used to help you get the captive bred fish you want. Most privately owned retailers regardless of size will work with their regular customers in providing advice, service and desired livestock. Recommendations from other hobbyists whose tanks you have seen are helpful.

Dom

 

[blange3]

Hey James,

Welcome to the club!

I appreciate your concern for the environment. One of the club's purposes is to foster a concern for the organisms we keep and to promote environmentally sound methods of acquiring and keeping livestock.

I think there is a middle ground between captive bred fish and buy anything and hope for the best, that has been neglected of late. Wild caught fish, caught without drugs, dynamite and other destructive methods can provide a "green" source of livestock and a sustainable industry that supports the population where these fish are captured. Similar in a way to the fair trade coffee and chocolate efforts.

I recall there was some effort to certify collectors and importers many moons ago, but I haven't heard anything lately. This would be a good area to investigate to see if anything is still going on in this area.

 

[IrradiatedReef]

Also "buyer beware!" Just because something is labeled captive raised, does not mean that it is. Most LFS buy from the same distributers in the area and some do direct shipping. Unless the purchaser of the store really does his homework, he has to trust the person that he is buying from that the fish are what they are, wild or captive.

 

[lotekfish]

Hey James,

Welcome to the club!

I appreciate your concern for the environment. One of the club's purposes is to foster a concern for the organisms we keep and to promote environmentally sound methods of acquiring and keeping livestock.

I think there is a middle ground between captive bred fish and buy anything and hope for the best, that has been neglected of late. Wild caught fish, caught without drugs, dynamite and other destructive methods can provide a "green" source of livestock and a sustainable industry that supports the population where these fish are captured. Similar in a way to the fair trade coffee and chocolate efforts.

I recall there was some effort to certify collectors and importers many moons ago, but I haven't heard anything lately. This would be a good area to investigate to see if anything is still going on in this area.

Thanks for the feedback and retailer information from everyone, I will look into these. I understand there is a middle ground and that fish can be sustainably collected, although talk about “buyer beware”, how can you ever know how these fish are collected until there is a certification standard? I’m not an absolutist on this point, I’m just trying to understand my real options. I will keep visiting retailers and keep asking them about captive-bred availability. Let’s face it, it’s a supply and demand business and if I don’t demand it, they’ll never supply it. Unfortunately I have a fairly small tank right now so I don’t feel I wield a lot of buying power especially since I’ve been visiting and buying at different stores. I think what AnDom1 is suggesting is that I get a MUCH bigger tank and frequent one store more often, thereby developing a stronger relationship. I’ll have to tell my wife the 100g tank has become a necessity. ;D

As for the increased cost being the limiting factor, I don’t completely accept that. I think of where the organic food market was 10 years ago, when most store owners would have said they could never sell organic produce because it cost more. The widespread success of the Whole Foods stores has proven them wrong. In fact our local store sells both organic and traditional tomatoes and the organic ones are always the first to go despite the fact they cost $2 more a pound.

Obviously this isn’t going to work if captive bred fish cost 3, 4 or 5 times the cost, but I think it is ultimately is up to the retailer to educate the buyer. Case in point: I bought my clowns at the LFS I frequent most often because I like the owners and trust their advice. While in the process of getting the fish my wife asked what the difference was between the captive bred clowns and “the other ones.” The salesperson gave a very detailed explanation of the differences in price, coloration, and stripe pattern, and completely neglected the two most important differences IMO- 1. Captive bred fish are already acclimated to a tank environment (less feeding and aggression issues), 2. They weren’t collected from the wild from who knows where, using who knows what methods, and shipped halfway around the world with a mortality rate of probably 50%. I mean, they’re never going to sell a more expensive fish if they don’t actually try to sell it.

Well, thanks again for your input. I’ll keep researching and learning.

 

[grgdnh]

Steve at Aqua Oceans in Toms River usually has a good selection of ORA fish. He gets a shipment from them every week or two. I would call him in advance though.

Currently ORA cultures six families of marine fish. They are the Clownfish (Pomacentridae), Dottybacks ( Pseudochromidae), Gobies (Gobidae), Assessors (Plesiopidae), Cardinals ( Apogonidae) and Seahorses (Sygnathidae).

Greg