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150G rebuilt/reset - lesson learned!

Hello forum,

This post will be a little long, pardon the long explanation but I think it is necessary to cover in details my fortunes and misfortunes in this hobby thus far. I first got attracted to marine life a while back but I really got into the hobby when one day I saw my friend dad's 200G FOWLR but I wanted to go beyond since I knew there was alot more that could be done with a fish tank. Soon after, I started researching and reading alot in different forums on how to properly setup an aquarium. needless to say, I told my friend that I was going to build a reef for less than $200 dollar (he laughed at me and said "go ahead and let me know how it goes", lol), soon after I started scouting for a used tank and equipment around town and the misfortunes began. My first tank was 55G with fish and corals, a few months later the tank crashed. I believe it crashed because of a heavy bio-load and not filtration in the system since the skimmer I had was a cheap one. furthermore, I later found a good deal on a 90G tank with stand and went for it. I transferred the fish, lr and corals to that tank; but to my demise ich broke out in the dt due to the introduction of a tang without proper QT. The ich killed most of the fish I had at that moment so my morale was very low because I wanted a reef so back that I was neglecting alot of the signs the tank was giving me. I went from ich to algae to anything a tank can get as far as pests.

Three years later, I have come to understand that I've made plenty of mistakes in this hobby as many of you have, but all of the bumps on the road were nothing but lessons into bettering my skills in the hobby. I went from buying cheap equipment to save money to not QT'ing fish when bought from the lfs; at the end it all was nothing but a wasted of money. The lesson for me was that I initially had to invest in the right equipment even if it meant to spend more on equipment but with a guarantee that it would last me years to come. Another lesson was to be patient, I used to grab any fish from the lfs without doing proper investigation on the fish and ended up taking it out of the tank later or even worst, killing it. In the past three years I have spent thousands of dollars into getting a nice reef (long way from that $200 I thought I was going to spend originally... naive lol) and still working towards achieving that goal. Yes I admit, I have slacked in taking care of the tank and fish here and there due to life circumstances but lately I've been thinking that I must finish what I started three years ago, the perfect reef system.

Long story short, I have learned from my mistakes along the way and now I am ready to right them all. I recently took down my system due to an aiptasia outbreak that got out of control; restarting the system is giving me a second change to get my system to were it needs be. I started buying equipment I didn't have to accomplish a nice a healthy system for the fish and corals. I read and re-read many forums trying to figure out the best way to restart my tank and I came to the conclusion of an acid bath. I took this route because I had tried many different things to rid the aiptasia and nothing worked for me; I tried lime juice, vinegar, bbf, hot water, aiptasia-x and none of these methods worked for me, hence the acid bath. I've already started the acid bath, I bleached and kill 98% of my lr, left some clean of aiptasia for re-seeding the dead rock later. I placed all of the fish and corals in a 40G QT with proper filtration and life rock in it. The fish have been in there for the past two days and they look happy.

Sorry for the long post, but here is what I currently have to rebuild the tank.

Equipment:

Reef Octopus SRO-3000INT skimmer
200W heater
GFO reactor
Carbon reactor (new)
Mag Drive 9.5 return pump
Jebao WP-15 (new)
ATO (new)
2part BRS doser (new)
RODI unit
2 Taotronics LED fixture Dimmable (will be going back to T5's, getting a hanging canopy build)
Aquatec CDP6800 buster pump (new)
4 Koralia evo 1400 powerhead

Fish:

Purple tang
Powder blue tang
Starry blenny
Yellow tang
Swallow tail BF
Cleaner wrasse
Clown fish
Foxface

Corals:
Green hammer
Green frogspawn

questions:

1. I got rid of the crush coral I had as substrate and I am planning on using fine sand. Any advise on what would be better, sand or cc? how many inches deep for the base?
2. What would be a good photo period cycle? I'm planning on having mostly LPS with a few SPS.
3. How many times a day to feed to prevent P04 buildup?
4. How do I figure out how much ALK should I dose?
5. Whats better, 2 part BRS alk or Kalkwasser?
6. I have mostly big fish in the DT, what smaller fish would you recommend for the DT on the small scale?

Thank you in advance for reading this thread. I'll really appreciate any advice, comments or suggestions. Will post pictures of my setup next week when I start putting everything back together.

Thank you.
 
Welcome aboard. 1) Crushed coral is not usually an accepted idea but some make it work. I think preference is what should guide you here. Some go bare bottom(in the tank I mean) and some like me have a deep sand bed with very fine sand ... and everthing in between. 2 Depends on T5 setup ...I would do LED with T5 if it was me. 3 I feed once per day looks like you could do the same. 4 I don't dose ??? think depends on what you have in the tank and consumption. 5 If I dose I dose 2 part,Kalk is cheaper...this is lifestyle choice. 6 Well in a 90G if I read your story correctly that is a lot of fish. More than I have in my 120.....would say stop if it was me....maybe some smaller schooling fish.
 

redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Welcome!



Answers:


1. I got rid of the crush coral I had as substrate and I am planning on using fine sand. Any advise on what would be better, sand or cc? how many inches deep for the base?


Not crushed coral, but whatever Aragonite sand sparks your fancy....and with a wrasse, about 1 1/2 inches.



2. What would be a good photo period cycle? I'm planning on having mostly LPS with a few SPS.


I have LED's and since pretty much most of what is in our tanks are from the equatorial region, that sees 12 hours of light, I do 12 hours of light. Starts with moon lights, then blues, then blues and whites for "mid-day, and then I reverse this schedule to darkness.



3. How many times a day to feed to prevent P04 buildup?


I feed once a day....algae for the tangs and either frozen or flakes. You don't prevent PO4, you simply control it.



4. How do I figure out how much ALK should I dose?


Test. I prefer the Red Sea Pro kit that includes alk, calc and mag test kits. You determine your consumption and dose accordingly. There are reef calculators available on line. I typically use the one at Bulk Reef Supply HERE.




5. Whats better, 2 part BRS alk or Kalkwasser?


There really isn't a "better." It's what works for you. I too have a 90 gallon DT and I dose two part, and in fact make my own using Dr. Randy Holmes Farley's recipe. It's dirt cheap to dose this way. For simplicity, it might be easier to purchase the ingredients from Bulk Reef Supply instead of trying to find the various ingredients at hardware stores.




6. I have mostly big fish in the DT, what smaller fish would you recommend for the DT on the small scale?


I'm slightly confused about the size tank you have. The title says 150, but the text says 90. If you have a 90, I agree with James above....you've got three crap machines in that tank with the three tangs. You're also pushing the limits with those tangs in such a small tank. I wouldn't add any more fish until I got rid of some of the tangs. Also, with that size tank, you really shouldn't have two zebrasomes together (the yellow and the purple). If they are not squaring off against each other now, they will eventually.
 
The tank is 150G, the 90G was my last tank before I upgraded. Let me see if I can clarify some of the questions I asked earlier.
1. for photo period I turn on the blues at 9am then the whites at 10am; I turn the whites off at 8pm and the blues at 9pm. Not sure if I need to shorten this or start the blues two hours prior to the whites. Any recommendations?
2. for feeding, I feed once a day in the morning before I go to work and some other times I do the opposite and feed at night but at least once a day. I thought once a day was too little since I only feed one cube of misys or krill or a mix of both.
3. As far for how much dosing, I meant how to figure out how many ml to dose once I find out the consumption rate. I do test the water column with red sea test kits and API for pH.
4. for lighting I am using LED's but never saw any growth or changes in the corals I had. So I'm inclined to go back to T5's and complement in with some sort of LED's. I'm planning to run a 8 bulb retro kit.
5. For the two zebrasomes, I do see them fighting, the purple tang is alot more dominant than the yellow but I've seen them together in tanks so I thought is was ok since the tank is 150G.

this is what I'm thinking for future fish:
leopard wrasse
potters wrasse
blue dotted blenny
anthias males/females
flame angel (I know I have to be cautious with it and corals, I like the fish willing to take the risk)
get rid of the yellow tang and get a hippo.
 

redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
1. If you only have blue and white, I would go for a total of ten hours of light and see what happens. 2 hours of blue only; 6 hours of white/blue; 2 hours of blue. If need be, extend the times out a little more.


2. I know others feed more than once a day...but once a day works for me....you can see it in your fish if not enough....they look skinny, emaciated, gaunt, right in the belly area. I don't see nori / algae on the food list. With tangs, they need algae / nori / laver every day...they are algae eaters. I purchase my nori at an asian market. Don't know where you live, but H-Mart is Edison is one of the best asian markets in my area. With three tangs, you're looking at 3/4 to a full sheet of nori a day.


3. Dosing. You could look HERE under "Dosing Instructions," and simply start with some volume a day....I'd start with 40 mls a day....and then test and adjust accordingly, slowly bringing the numbers up or down slowly to your target dose.


I know others who first adjust to a known level and then do not dose for three days and then test and determine the requirement needed per day to maintain that dose.


I prefer the above method where you first guess and then slowly add/subtract to get to where you're going. Hope that makes sense.


4. Some have gone back to T5's or MH....I'm happy with my LED's.


5. Just keep an eye on them as they mature....they can get aggressive.




As far as fish additions, I'll defer to the fish experts on here.
 
Thanks alot for the reply, Yes I feed the nori with garlic but I guess not enough. I do a sheet every now and then, shame on me but all the algae eaters look healthy in my eyes. Will head to H-mart on sunday, I know exactly where that is. Im in Perth Amboy btw.

I think I'll try your dosing method once the tank is ready for it.
 

redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
I'm right in Sayreville if you wish to stop by this weekend. I have nothing fancy, but you might get some ideas.
 
As I have a 90 gal...have had saltwater tanks for over 30 years and I am building a 420gal with 180 gal sump...here is my .02 on what I have learned
1) With Tangs...Ick can be a big issue and ALWAYS quarantine ALL fish, 30 days minimum.. With Anthias they need several feeding per day or they will starve. I feed 2 times a day
2) I use a minimal ( 1") sand bed...easier to clean and works well for me.Had no luck with deep sand beds.
3) With dosing...dont assume just adding in alk, calcium or Magn. You need to TEST...Before adding and do it often...learn what your tank needs and dose appropriately
4) Contoliing phosphate, nitrate, etc,,,,with feedings means more water changes,,,,and HAVE GOOD equipment...proper sized sump, proper skimmer. I chamge 20% a week...and should at least do this no longer than every 2 weeks. Get a good clean up crew also...snails, crabs, cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimps...


Keeping a reef tank is not about the fish or corals....for the most part...It is about water quality...keeping water.
I keep a log...a sreadsheet log works incredibly well...a fellow reefer on ReefCentral built it...
 
~Mike H

I will definitely start a quarantine regiment for any new fish bought. I think some of my problems with this tank and fighting P04 was the cc, it was at least 2+ inches deep. as far as dosing, I haven't really taken advantage of it since I didn't have all equipment necessary but this time around I do; I never dosed anything to my tank without testing. For water changes I do a 10% every 2 weeks, I have to say water quality for me was never an issue aside from being low on some trace elements such as alk and mag.

~redfishbluefish

pm me if you are available on Sunday, we can meet briefly. I'll be spending most of that day working on the rocks and getting it ready to aquascape. Hopefully you can give me some ideas or I can share what my plans are.
 
Sven
I would cut the sand bed depth, and increase water changes in either frequency...every week of 10% or in amount to 20%..or even both. You have to find what works.....this depends on amount of fish...feedings etc. If you see spiking in PO4...water changes and cleaning the sand bed, filters , skimming, etc...will solve this. If you are always low on elements and fighting PO4...then water quality is an issue. Keeping good water quality is what keeping successful reefs is all about.....no 2 tanks are the same. Good luck with the new setup...the equipment list looks good. Leds work great for me and T5's work for others,
 
As I have a 90 gal...have had saltwater tanks for over 30 years and I am building a 420gal with 180 gal sump...here is my .02 on what I have learned
1) With Tangs...Ick can be a big issue and ALWAYS quarantine ALL fish, 30 days minimum.. With Anthias they need several feeding per day or they will starve. I feed 2 times a day
2) I use a minimal ( 1") sand bed...easier to clean and works well for me.Had no luck with deep sand beds.
3) With dosing...dont assume just adding in alk, calcium or Magn. You need to TEST...Before adding and do it often...learn what your tank needs and dose appropriately
4) Contoliing phosphate, nitrate, etc,,,,with feedings means more water changes,,,,and HAVE GOOD equipment...proper sized sump, proper skimmer. I chamge 20% a week...and should at least do this no longer than every 2 weeks. Get a good clean up crew also...snails, crabs, cleaner wrasse, cleaner shrimps...


Keeping a reef tank is not about the fish or corals....for the most part...It is about water quality...keeping water.
I keep a log...a sreadsheet log works incredibly well...a fellow reefer on ReefCentral built it...

Not cleaner wrasse!
 

redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
...........
~redfishbluefish

pm me if you are available on Sunday, we can meet briefly. I'll be spending most of that day working on the rocks and getting it ready to aquascape. Hopefully you can give me some ideas or I can share what my plans are.

I should be home all day on Sunday. I'll PM my address and phone. Please call before coming just to make sure I'm home.

Paul
 
I should be home all day on Sunday. I'll PM my address and phone. Please call before coming just to make sure I'm home.

Paul

Sounds good Paul. Will try and do some things early morning, I have to pick up some barrels to change the ATO holding container and finish the acid bath for the LR. Will call you after all of that.
 
~redfishbluefish

Like I previously mentioned, I'm planning to go back to T5's but most people tend to go with LED's these days. What's you be your opinion on this? I have 2x Taotronics Dimmable, not the best LED's out there but I think they are descent.

Posted these pictures since my thread is new and the site limits the amount of URL's I can have :rolleyes:

Do you think it might be good to keep these and buy another one to make 3 and save on electricity at long run? I need good opinion on this cause tomorrow I'll be calling a guy to make me a hanging canopy for the T5's and don't want to waste the money if I don't need to.
 

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redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
We can talk tomorrow about this....I originally had T5's before switching to LEDs. Save in electricity, heat, and yearly bulb changes. You would definitely need a minimum of three of these fixtures.
 
So today I met with redfishbluefish and have gained some knowledge on a couple of things I didn't know and needed clarification on. Thank you redfishbluefish.

I bought a 55G plastic drum to upgrade my RO container since I have to fill the 150G DT, hopefully it will make it easier since I'll have more water to work with. I have also finish the second step towards the acid bath to clean the rock, I think the outcome was good. I have the rock sitting on RO water till tomorrow and will test for chlorine and p04. The rock doesn't smell like bleach so hopefully the test will be negative as well as for p04. By testing I'll know if the acid rid or all the dead bio crap on the rock, if all this comes out ok I will go ahead and start the aquascaping. I know people say to leave the rock dry for a couple of days but I believe that that step is taken before adding the muriatic acid to let the bleach evaporate some, but since I let the rock sit in fresh water for two days after bleaching, I should be fine because whatever trace of bleach that was there should of been evaporated when I added the acid. Everything I mentioned about the acid bath are all but assumptions, tomorrow I'll post the results of the chlorine and phosphate test.

Looking forward to this, I have alot of ideas to implement and getting pointers from Paul (redfishbluefish) I'll think I'll put together a better tank this time around.

These 3 pictures are from the acid bath. The first one is the rocks in bleach and the other two is the muriatic acid bath.
 

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I need to get some sand for my DT but paying $20 per bag at petco or lfs is out of the question. Can I use play sand or pool filter sand from home depot? would this be safe or should I take the hit and pay for the sand at the lfs?
 

redfishbluefish

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
No...for two reasons. The play sand/pool sand is most likely treated with stuff and secondly, it is silica based sand. The sand we need to use in our tanks is aragonite based (calcium based). Check out either Petco or PetSmart. One of them has aragonite based sand at relatively low cost. You'll just need to include it in you cycle to seed it with bacteria.
 
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