40 breeder all-in-one sump!!

jerzsky · Feb 27, 2009

starting very soon, i have decided to startup my 90 gal. after much debate, i have decided what to do with my 40 breeder... which is currently my display tank.

i want a good size sump/refugium. i also want a frag tank. and im not liking having a bunch of tanks all over my room. so i thought why not combine them all into one! so, i came up with this design on sketchup.

the first chamber will have the drains from the display and the skimmer, then baffles. next will be the refugium/frag rack section.

this section will be split in half. the rear half will contain a dsb, some rubble, and chaeto. the front half will be the frag rack, with two small pwerheads for extra flow. sinc the main return pump will prob not be enough, and a dsb. then more baffles.

last section will contain return pump, heater(s).

this sump/fuge/frag tank wont fit under my stand, so i will be making it sort of a second display. i am pretty miticulous (sp??) when i comes to building things, so i think it will come out pretty nice!

comments and suggestions greatly appreciated! thanx!!!

onefish2fish · Feb 27, 2009

i use a 40 breeder, different set up style. alittle messy in the picture

looking forward to seeing the outcome, what lights are you planning over the frag section?

jerzsky · Feb 27, 2009

lol...ya i was thinkin lettuce would be better than chaeto, plus i could feed it to the tangs when it gets large! j/k

im gonna use a 4x24w t-5 nova extreme, positioned from front to back. and then a small cpr fuge light for at night.

mkreef · Feb 27, 2009

There are a couple of things that you might want to consider. First off, plan on having the heaters in the supply chamber, not the return chamber. If there is a situation where the return chamber starts to run dry because of evaporation, the level of the water could possibly not totally immerse your heaters, causing them to overheat/burst. The supply chamber will always have the same level of water (which is determined by the height your first baffle). The return chamber's water height is variable.

Make sure that the dimensions of the supply chamber are large enough to fit the skimmer and if you are planning to have a filtersock on the supply line, enough room to be able to reach/maintain it. I had the unfortuate experience in planning my chamber for a AquaC ev120 Model 2, only to buy one used and have it turn out the be a model 1 when it arrived. I barely got it to fit my configuration and had to scrap the filtersock idea. (Only resolved by upgrading the tank and sump (75DT/20L -> 120DT/30Br).

You might be able to nix the bubble trap between the supply chamber and the fuge/frag chamber. I understand that you do not want microbubbles disturbing your frags. You can save the space if you change your fuge/frag chamber from lengthwise to widthwise (meaning have 4 chambers [supply->fuge->frag->return]), your chaeto will trap most of the bubbles from the supply and skimmer. Also this would help design the next part, since you would have to factor in drop in height from chamber to chamber. But if its a requirement that the frag section face out and "hide" the fuge, ignore this paragragh.

Finally, keep in mind the height drop from the final baffle into the return chamber at your optimum water level. The larger the drop, the increase in noise rises "seems like" exponentially.

I do have a question though. You said that you will have this tank outside of your display's stand. So you are going to have this next to the DT? have you considered extending the frag section the full length of the tank in the front, having the Supply->Fuge->return in the back, out of view? you know what, when i have time, i'll power up my sketchup and work something out.

jerzsky · Feb 27, 2009

good point on the heaters! didnt think of the evap...good point!! will def remembr that. and im not gonna build it until i have all the parts(skimmer/sock/pumps/etc) so i make sure everything will fit. i do like the idea of having the fuge/return in the back, and the frag section in the front, cause yes it is gonna be beside the display tank, lower in height(bout a foot or two off the floor to aid in the gravity draining overflow. i would greatly appreciate you coming up with a design! all input is definetly encouraged, and considered!! thanx!!!

jerzsky · Feb 27, 2009

heres what i came up with, how about you??

onefish2fish · Feb 27, 2009

m_kerrane said:
There are a couple of things that you might want to consider. First off, plan on having the heaters in the supply chamber, not the return chamber. If there is a situation where the return chamber starts to run dry because of evaporation, the level of the water could possibly not totally immerse your heaters, causing them to overheat/burst. The supply chamber will always have the same level of water (which is determined by the height your first baffle). The return chamber's water height is variable.

although this is a very valid point in my case my return pump sits in some really deep water. even on the worst day ( or even 2 days ) of evap the pump still is under water.

mkreef · Mar 9, 2009

It's been awhile but found a couple of minutes to draw something up. This is what I was refering to in regards to having the frag section all in the front, and everything behind. The flow in the tank will go in a clockwise route from the supply chamber (mid-back) -> Fuge (right-back) -> Frag (Full front -> return (left back). The fuge will help feed the frags. This design allows for all water to pass through every section.

The full front frag section. BTW, keep the frag section sandless for easy cleaning. Also, this way, if you still want an extra powerhead in here, you will only need a little one since the main flow will go from right to left. Play around with it when you get it set up to see if you need extra flow (most likely against current, maybe).

The Back. Three chambers (Fuge, Supply, Return)

Now the dimensions are relative and need to be changed depending on your equipment and desire for more space in section X and less in section Y. But this give you the general design.

The Fuge - You can have a DSB in the fuge section, if you want.

Finally The Return W/Bubble trap

To keep the bubble trap, had to extend the supply section alittle into the main frag section. But this is a little better so you won't need on long piece of acrylic to reach end to end. Also, the bubble traps that I usually create, I have the seperator baffle close to the first, and have more space for the last baffle. Enough space to get your hand down to get anything that fell. Personally, I place my filtermedia bags in the bubble trap (i.e. carbon, phosban, filterfloss ect..). The will negate the need for an extra reactor because all water going through the sump will pass over the media.

Again, this is just a general design. You will have to figure out the overal dimensions. Keep in mind, the less of a drop in height from section to section dramatically reduces the noise. More than 2 inches, and you will constantly have your significant other complaining and you'll have a perpetual erge to pee when standing near it. Hope this helps.

Mark

jerzsky · Mar 9, 2009

wow!! awesome design!! i will definetly keep that in mind!! and i was gonna have the skimmer in sump. but the model i want can be external also, so all i would have to do is drill some bulkheads n be dont with it. thanx a lot! i really appreciate the time you put in to that design! i like it a lot!!!

mark

mkreef · Mar 10, 2009

Once you get the hang of sketchup, its not really hard at all. It was my pleasure.

mkreef · Mar 10, 2009

One thing that I forgot to mention. Remember that the Air space (Volume - LxWxH) inside the sump must be able to handle the water draining from ALL the plumbing when the pumps are turned off (All remaining water in the supply and return lines, and the amount of water drained from the display that is above the siphon breaks). Then you take that air space volume and multiply it to the amount of cubic inches 1 gallon of water takes up (1 US gallon = 231 cubic inches). Adjust the heights of your baffles until you have the minimum air space you need.