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Algea outbreak?

F

fishrdp

For about 2 months I have had like a rust colored algea growing in tank. It will turn purple or red if not vacuumed up.Tank has been up for about 14 months all fish and corals seem to be ok. I just started a fuge in my sump to try and get nitrate levels down. Also just changed MH bulb to 14k about 2 weeks ago. Thought the 14 month old 10k MH bulb was the problem but algea continues to grow especially on crushed coral substrate. PHOS .05
AMMON 0
NITRITE 0
NITRATE 20-40
PH 8.2
Any suggestions would be appreciated ???
 
mfisher2112

mfisher2112

I had the same problem with my tank. For me it was the nitrates and underpowered skimmer, plus the fact that I was not using RO/DI water.

I upgraded the skimmer, installed a phosphate reactor with rowaphos to eliminate the phosphates, and kept up on cleaning the rocks. I actually had to pull my rocks, scrub them in tank water I had siphoned during a water change, and return them to the display. I also cut back on my feedings because I think I was feeding a little too heavily.

After a couple of months and an RO/DI unit, I got it under control, but it was a nasty and long battle.

My advice would be to eliminate the source of the nutrients the algae is thriving on. Probably in the crushed coral.

Are you using a skimmer? RO/DI water or tap water?
 
mfisher2112

mfisher2112

The only thing I can see is to get to the root of what is causing the nitrates. Could be trapped nutrients in the crushed coral substrate.

Also review your feeding patterns and your photo period. If you are feeding too heavily, the excess is contributing to the nitrate levels, thus feeding the algae, and if you have your photoperiod set too long, that is potentially adding to the other components.

Any sponge type filters or anything like that?
 
mfisher2112

mfisher2112

jazzsam said:
This thread has made me hook up my new RO unit. I was putting this off but now I got down to it.
Click to expand...

Yeah, if you don't have the tank up and running yet, now is the time to do it. Start it off right. I wish I had. And I have well water with a whole house filter and softener. City Tap water can be even worse.

Keep this in mind though. My tap water tests at 250+ TDS, RO only after nearly 10 hours of straight waste tested between 80 and 100 TDS. After the DI, tested at 0. RO only is better, but not nearly as good as the extra DI stage.

I really think the algae outbreak he is having is a nitrate problem though. Could be stemming from the crushed coral, or from long term heavy feeding.

One thing I learned the hard way: don't treat the symptoms, treat the illness.
 
J

jazzsam

The reason I say that is because I am having an algea outbreak in my tank right now. It has been just fine for a long time now and it just jumpted out. I never used RO water before but now I am.

I got a RO/DI unit so lets see if that makes a difference.
 
F

fishrdp

Photoperiod is atinic 8 hrs mh 6 hrs. Is this to long ,atinic stays on 1 hour before to 1 hour after the Mh goes off.Water is ro/di from AWI.Yes there is a sponge in the sump, overflow filter, and in cannister I run carbon in.
 
mfisher2112

mfisher2112

I don't think your photoperiod is too long, but you may want to look into removing those sponges. They could be contributing to nitrate buildup.
 
C

Carlo

You need to remove the source of food for the algea. It's the combination of Nitrates and Phosphorus that is causing your problem. I can tell you from experience the crushed coral is helping things as it is so think it traps organic matter.

From dealing with this myself and trying all kinds of things I'd recommend the following course of action. Go to a pool store and pick up a bottle of Phos-Free. Make sure it is this and not another product and make sure to shake the bottle before using it. This product is made from lanthanum and works wonders. It will not hurt you fish or corals (atleast has never bothered my high bio-load tanks and I've got mixed corals.

What lanthanum does is precipitate the phosphates out of the water. You will notice a "snow storm" in the tank and your skimmer will go nuts which is good! Much of it will precipitate out of the water column and sit on the subtrate. After the milky look of the tank is done you will want to vacuum the subtrate to get as much of the precipitated phosphorus out of the tank as possible. Same with the live rock.

Take a turkey blaster and completely blow off your rock work. You will be highly surprised at all the organic matter you see that comes off of it. Again vaccuuming the subtrate will be a good idea once this has settled. You will probably need to repeat these steps a few times.

The PhosFree has a dosage table on the back designed for pools/ponds but you can break it down to low volume numbers with a little math. In one of my tanks I had phosphate reading of 10+ (no decimal). It would have cost thousands of dollars of sponge type materials to get the phosphates out of the tank. A $16 bottle of PhosFree took care of the matter after about the 4th dose and I still have more then half a bottle left!

The problem with Phosphates is that they leach into the sand/coral and rock work. So even doing 75% water changes have little affect on removing them. You are only at 0.5 so it shouldn't be to hard to get this reading down to 0.

By using the turkey blaster technique to get all the organic matter off the rocks and skimmed up or syphoned from the subtrate you will get rid of a lot of the organic matter in the tank leading to the high nitrates. Ideally you want your nitrates under 10.

If after doing the above you can't get the nitrate level down you can reduce feeding (assuming you over feed) or try a product called AZ NO3 (Absolute Zero Nitrates) which is a liquid designed for marine aquariums. Again this product works like magic if you follow the directions on the label and is much faster then nitrate sponge materials and costs less.

You just got my two "secret" products that I use to save money on all the sponge materials everyone else uses and what enables me to run such a high bio-load system!

Don't use any of the slime removal products as they are a bandaid. You want to reduce the food the algea uses and then work on keeping them low and in the proper range. The outbreak of the algea is a good sign that your tank is healthy BUT that something is out of whack.

Carlo

PS the PhosFree is the same stuff in the product designed for marine aquariums called Phosbuster Pro. :)
 
I

IrradiatedReef

Good advice!! When ever I got red slime, I used the same product PhosFree. I rinsed it and put it into a nylon bag and dropped it into my sump. Gave it a few days then did a good vaccuming!
 
F

fishrdp

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try some of these things and let you know what happens .I to have a large bioload, must stop buying fish :(
 
mfisher2112

mfisher2112

fishrdp said:
Thanks for the suggestions. I will try some of these things and let you know what happens .I to have a large bioload, must stop buying fish :(
Click to expand...

Just remember to go slow and check your results for each change you make. It will give you a better idea on what the root cause was to begin with, and help you when you set up your next tank (cause we all know its WHEN not IF! ;D )

Good luck, keep us posted!
 
Tazmaniancowboy

Tazmaniancowboy

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Cayars, Surfing around the site I found your suggestion to use Phos-free. I would like to recommend this to my brother, but I am curious about the precipitation.

His last tank worked out for him(90gal) with little hair algae in the beginning, but no trace of it for a couple of years after. During the summer, he upgraded to around 210gals using existing sand, dead rock, and some new rock that was ordered from Allquatics that was "lost at the airport" for 2 days. He now has hair algae so bad that you can not see any rock and it is attaching to the overflow and returns(even chocking the teeth on the overflow). He also has to scrape the glass 2 times a day and the glass turns green within hours. I have finally talked him into getting a phosban reactor and media, but that would probably take a lifetime to clear and I would like to see him gain control and be able to enjoy the tank. The tank is a room divider between the living and dining rooms viewable all four sides and will be beautiful with the custom cabinetry around it. I know it is eating him alive to see his hard work and money looking like this !

I believe that he is now caught in a vicious circle the algae is growing so fast and breaking off so much with extreme flow that he has particles everywhere. The skimmer is working great and he is trying to catch most die-off with pantyhose in the sump(150gal rubbermaid)and I believe the decomposing stuff is fueling the phosphates quicker than he can take them out.

Anyway back to my concerns and questions. Will Phos-free precip be a problem when it gets behind the rock where he can not vacuum or will he have to take all the rock out? I assume he would have to dose a couple of times, how long would you wait between? Do a water change in between? How long would you say it would take for the hair algae to start unattaching or die off? My suggestion to him would be dose on Thurs night so that he will be home Fri night through Mon morning to keep "cleaning the teeth" of the overflow and watch the pantyhose in the sump to avoid a flood in the house. It is bad!

Thanks for your "secrets" lol
Taz
 
C

Carlo

Keep in mind Phos-Free is designed for pools and spa and small ponds so the instructions for the dose will need a calculator and paper to convert to our small systems. Don't let that scare you however as it works wonders and I've used it on a reef system with $15-20K worth of corals in it with no coral problems at all.

First make sure to shake the bottle well before every use. Until you get the "feel" for how much to use try adding about a shotglass amount per 100 gallons of system water. If after a couple of minutes the water DOESN'T turn cloudy white add another shotglass amount to the system. You want to get a cloudy look to the water. When it gets cloudy the phosphates are binding to it and precipitating out of the water column.

The first time I had to use this product I had phosphate well over 10! (not .10). I had to dose about 3 days in a row before I could detect the phosphates coming down to 5 because it was so high. From there it dropped to 2 the next day and then went down lower.

You will need to treat a few times. Probably about a half dozen times. The reason is that phosphates leach into the sand bed and live rock. So even after you get the phosphates out of the water column the sand bed and live rock give the phosphates back to the water column. Of course each times this happens there is less and less phosphates left in the sand bed and liverock.

He should notice the algae subside pretty quickly as the phosphates in the water column get binded and precipitate out. However it's important to keep doing the routine each day to take care of the "leaching affect" or there will be "food" available for the algae to grow again.

Yes, the precipitation will settle everywhere which is something of a pain but if he has good circulation in the tank it really shouldn't be an issue. The precipitation really should be no different then normal organics in the tank. By this I mean if there are dead spots in the tank that allow stuff to settle then it's a problem that should be addresses or he'll probably have ongoing issues with phosphates and/or nitrate problems as things like food will settle and decay.

With good circulation and a skimmer the tank will usually be back to pretty much clear status in a couple of hours after dosing the Phos Free. I wouldn't say he needs to do water changes because of the dosing of Phos Free or to help remove phosphates from the tank (since it will leach back anyway) BUT if he wants to syphon off the sand bed to remove any of the precipitation that settles then just add whatever amount of "top off salt water" back to the tank. Do this every couple of days would probably be a good idea.

Do you know what the levels are for both Phosphates and Nitrates in the tank? Also what test kit is used? As far as cheap test kits go the Red Sea Phosphate test kit comes the closest of all the kits I've tried when compared to my colormeter for Phosphates. It also has a decent scale and is pretty easy to see the difference in colors.

BTW, if his Nitrates are up that could also be a problem. I know/use a similar product to reduce Nitrates that works equally as well and comes out a lot cheaper then the usual media used in a reactor. I've used this on the same reef systems with no harm done to any of the corals, fish or inverts.

Oh btw, just a suggestion but when using the Phos Free I'd probably suggest doing it right before the lights go off. The reason I'd say this is to reduce any stress on the fish. They won't be bothered by the product itself but probably won't appreciate the cloudy water. If you do it when the lights go out they won't be bothered as much. Once I got used to using it after the second day I waited till I was about to turn in for the night before I dosed it. Many fish were sleeping by then and didn't even notice as the water will clear up before they wake.

Just so you know the "shotglass amount" is a low dose. I've used way more at one time but like I said you'll want to start slow and get a feel for the cloudiness and see if it bothers your fish. If not you can use more.

Let me know if you have any questions.

Carlo
 
L

lithivm

I had a real bad breakout of the red algea... and instead od fighting it like aI always do I just let it cover the whole bare bottom tank. The snails started eating it and in about 3 weeks it was all gone on its own. I dont use a skimmer any longer and everything seems good still.
 
F

fishrdp

I got some cheato from Mikem and added a phosban reactor, all is going good algea almost gone. Also one of my sebea anem seems to have some algea either on it or in it ??? Anyone had this happen to them?
 
I

IrradiatedReef

Is the anenome browning? If so, some anenomes, I think sebae is one of them, are capable of having the same symbiotic algae as coral. A lot of importers treat the anenomes to get rid of this algae but in some cases, it grows back...
 
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