Apollo LED Issue

[redfishbluefish]

Boy, do I have my panties in a bunch!!!




I've been wondering why my corals haven't had that pop they use to have. Well I think I now know why.





The future son-in-law was closely examining the Apollo LED's I have over my 90 (because he believes he can build them for cheap....he's a Stevens Tech electrical student), and noticed some of the blues looked to have a blackened crust on them. Note the blues only were on. He also noted that some of the other colors (that weren't on yet), the led looked like it had melted. Here are some pictures.... that aren't that great because of the bright lighting.



Here are the blackened blues:











And here is one of the other colors that's not ON yet...and you can see it has melted:







Are there any other Apollo users out there....and are you seeing this same thing?




Not sure what I am going to do.....but I'm steaming!

 

[JRWOHLER]

I have them but knock on wood I have not seen it yet. FYI mine are hanging open so I can see them daily so I think I would have noticed.

 

[mrehfeld]

I never took thermodynamics while at Snevets Institute ofTech. But it looks like your heat sync & fans may have failed to adequately dissipate the heat or the resistors are inadequate. Too much juice will shorten the lifespan or burn out the LED. I'd be really interested in finding out how much power is feeding those LEDs.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Michael, fans still appear to be working. These early Apollos are 120W, 55 - 3W LEDs with no adjustments.....you're either ON or OFF. So at 55 LEDs at a total of 120W, each LED is being pushed to 2.2 Watts.


I'm in the process of pulling out one of the units and temporarily replacing it with an even older TaoTronics fixture I have.

 

[redfishbluefish]

I have them but knock on wood I have not seen it yet. FYI mine are hanging open so I can see them daily so I think I would have noticed.

James, take a closer look because I saw mine every day when I fed. When you look closely, you see the blackened crust.

 

[JRWOHLER]

OK will take a look ...mine are the newer but manual dimmable.

 

[kschweer]

You can purchase new diodes that you can replace the old burnt leds with. It's pretty simple to do, remove the bad ones and solder the new one back in place. I did this with an old blueline fixture and it was pretty easy. I know this doesn't help with it happening in the future but it's a quick cheap fix that may work out for you.


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[Zippy69]

I have it2040 LEDs. 2 of my violets are carbon coated. I got new LEDs but have not had time to solder the reacements on yet. From what I've read like Kevin said it's easy to do.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Thanks everyone.....here's the latest update.


I've pulled one of my Apollo's off the tank and temporarily replaced it with an old TaoTronics. First thing I noticed was that the corals popped with the TaoTronics. With this Apollo, one of the three fans was not working. Opened up the case and pulled out the LED board. Noticed that the glass protective cover showed burn marks on it. It was now very clear that every blue LED (all 36) were toast. Note that there are two circuits (power supplies)....one predominately blue, the other predominately white with a fair number of blues (10). Again, all blues were toasted. All of the whites (15) were fine as were the reds (4). In addition, the three blue moonlights were fine.


Here's a picture of the "blue" circuit turned ON:






Here's a picture of the "white" circuit turned ON. The toasted blue LEDs are in rows 2 and 4.






Prior to pulling off the LEDs, my resident electronics expert thinks he knows what the problem was. He doesn't feel the one fan not working was the issue. I have a second Apollo with all three fans working and that also has some burnt LEDs. He believes there is too much current for the blue LEDs and that's what cooked them. Blues are not rated as high as the whites, but he believes Apollo is pushing the higher amperage throught the blues. It might be the reason these things had killer PAR over other 55 LED units when I purchase them. He's in the process of pulling this thing apart and testing it right now.

 

[greg 45]

I purchased my replacement leds from reef breeders .
They only go in one way or wont turn on also they have a wire in there leds so if it burns out the whole string doesn't blank out
Also get some good solder paste to glue o the board with / hope this helps

 

[redfishbluefish]

Greg, thanks for the heads up but I've already looked at ReefBreeders and when you need to buy a boat-load, I'm looking to save money.




I know you can't judge the biological effectiveness on light by what our eye sees, but here's a full tank shot with the TaoTronics on the left and the Apollo on the right....blue lights only.....white balanced.









I've found THIS on Amazon....50 blue (453 nm) for $20.....and these look to be the exact dimensions of the ones on there now. Just don't know enough if these would be the "right" blue.

 

[saltkreep88]

Paul does the driver have a milliamp rating on it? These bridgelux blue leds are 700 ma max , not recommended above 500ma. These leds have a voltage of 3.5 so at 700 ma that is 2.4 watts each.

 

[saltkreep88]

Greg, thanks for the heads up but I've already looked at ReefBreeders and when you need to buy a boat-load, I'm looking to save money.




I know you can't judge the biological effectiveness on light by what our eye sees, but here's a full tank shot with the TaoTronics on the left and the Apollo on the right....blue lights only.....white balanced.









I've found THIS on Amazon....50 blue (453 nm) for $20.....and these look to be the exact dimensions of the ones on there now. Just don't know enough if these would be the "right" blue.

They are the right blue for the main blue. 450 is used for the base blue, a few 420 or less also beneficial. Lastly a few 470-480 bring out reds.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Paul does the driver have a milliamp rating on it? These bridgelux blue leds are 700 ma max , not recommended above 500ma. These leds have a voltage of 3.5 so at 700 ma that is 2.4 watts each.

Thanks for the info....here's what we found.....all but one of the blues measured 3.4 volts. That one blue measures 3.7 volts??? The blues tested for amps measured 550 mA. And there is diddly squat on the drivers....nothing.

 

[saltkreep88]

So they were not driven to hard, 550 is safe with proper thermal contact to the heatsink. The blues in the old Chinese fixtures are known to burn up. Have no read about the issue recently so it seems they figured it out. How old are the fixtures?

 

[kschweer]

Those look like the same ones I got. When I did mine the company I got them from stressed that I use a thermal paste between the LED and the plate that they touch. I forget which brand I picked up but it was fairly inexpensive.


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[saltkreep88]

Those look like the same ones I got. When I did mine the company I got them from stressed that I use a thermal paste between the LED and the plate that they touch. I forget which brand I picked up but it was fairly inexpensive.


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Great point. Without the thermal paste or tape the led heat does not pass to the heatsink.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Thanks guys about the paste....was aware of it, but still haven't sourced it. I'm also having a tough time finding an 80 mm fan....that only draws 0.1 amps. Not sure if I can exceed the 0.1 amp since nothing is labeled.

 

[kschweer]

Thanks guys about the paste....was aware of it, but still haven't sourced it. I'm also having a tough time finding an 80 mm fan....that only draws 0.1 amps. Not sure if I can exceed the 0.1 amp since nothing is labeled.

Paul, if theirs any info on the fan let me know. I have the old blueline sitting around with a blown driver. If one of the fans out of it will work it's yours.


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[redfishbluefish]

........... How old are the fixtures?

Installed Jan, 2012.....so three years old, running.

Paul, if theirs any info on the fan let me know. I have the old blueline sitting around with a blown driver. If one of the fans out of it will work it's yours.

Kevin, unfortunately I've become an "expert" on stuff I don't want to know about, and believe I could find a new driver for you for about $15 to get that Blueline back working. It might not be a bad thing because I'm now back using an old TaoTronics to keep my tank running. Anyway, the fan is an 80mm fan by 25mm and rated for 12VDC, 0.1A. What concerns me is the amp draw. Since nothing is labelled, I don't know how many amps I have to play with. Accordingly, I'm looking to replace with 0.1A (or less....which doesn't exist). Most of the fan sites I've visisted do not include amperage.