Ever expanding bubble tip anemone

[lanceb13]

Hello all.....I have had a bubble tip anemone in my 225 for about 6 months. I feed him chunks of squid every 10 days or so. He is hosting a mated pair of Gold Stripe Maroon Clowns and is clearly happy with his location. All seems well right? Well not for much longer at this rate. He has doubled in size in 6 months and is now about the size of a dinner plate (about 10-12 inches across) when fully extended. I knew they would get larger and as such I moved the surrounding corals what I thought was a safe distance away, but he just keeps growing. I have had to move several SPS out of the area and I am running out of space for him.

Anyway, does anyone know how big they will actually get? Also, I have heard that they will multiply. When this happens, how do I get the new one onto a rock that can be taken out of the tank? I have heard that it is very difficult or even impossible to move them without killing them once they have attached.

Thank you in advance for your info!

 

[Phyl]

Sounds like he's getting to be about the size where he'd be inclined to split. I've had success using ice and a bit of tickling to get them off of the rock. A powerhead for good measure. But it isn't easy. Sometimes taking the rock out and dangling it upside down over the water will help a bit. Good luck!

 

[ReeferNets]

The pres is correct they tend to split when they get larger. Usually because they feel as if they cant survive better if they split, it will greaten their chances for survival. Splitting can be triggered by a tank cleaning, a water change, or anything that makes it feel threatened.

Splitting is not a good thing to have happen. It means that they feel threatened or stressed.

In regards to size anemones do not stop growing if they have the room. In the wild people have spotted certain species as big as a volkswagen beete. BTAS can get pretty big but the largest are the Gigantea carpets and Heteractis Magnifica.

If its green and you dont want it. i have room in a 30 breeder

 

[RichT]

Back way off the direct feeding. I hardly ever direct feed mine and it still kept growing but slower. The clowns will get it stuff plus it's photosynthetic (I believe). Splitting anemone's usually means stung corals as the baby will move away quickly.

 

[jazzsam]

I used a turkey baster and moved mine around just fine.

 

[mladencovic]

...
Splitting is not a good thing to have happen. It means that they feel threatened or stressed.
...

I am sorry, but I find that argument (though often found on the web) rather dubious. No other animal or plant species is considered to reproduce in distressful situation. Also, where is the logic in that if the splitting is associated with big growth which is a sign of no stress but rather healthy environment. What I believe is that slight environmental shocks often associated with their splitting are natural triggering mechanisms used as a biological timing devices (in very broad sense of the word). There have been several articles on the web describing how certain people have found how to consistently propagate anemones. In each case the environmental shock (water changes) was just a slight to be real distress, and could have served only as a triggering mechanism, since the anemones would grow and develop at the same rate before and after that triggering instance. I find this analogous to the effect that winter has on some species - like a catalyst for iris and hyacinth bulbs, that must freeze before being able to germinate, or as timing device for some mammals which will deliver offspring in spring and have whole summer for their optimal development.

Furthermore the argument that the two will survive better where one couldn't is very illogical. Energy is spent in splitting to start with, and from the beginning those two anemones are going to compete for the resources. Assuming that anemone has found the optimal place for itself over some period of time, by splitting, one of them MUST find another place, which means that it will be exposed to suboptimal environment for some time. In a really stressful situation none will survive!

So, reproduction (in whichever form) of a species, on its own, can not be bad for a species (for the purpose of this argument I am not considering overpopulation). On the contrary, reproduction signifies good conditions of an environment that can support a larger population (or replenishment of the population).

Sorry.

... plus it's photosynthetic (I believe)...

Symbiotic like the rest of the corals (most). This will also give you a way to move it. Simply shade it more or less, and it should try to move around looking for better place. As it moves it should have less strong grip on the rock, plus it won't be wedged in as they sometimes tend to do, so gentle irritations as suggested by Phyllis will do the trick.

 

[Phyl]

Well put.

 

[ReeferNets]

Let me start by saying Splitting is not reproduction of anemone.

These animals dont look good when they split they look unhealthy. Anemones dont split to reproduce in the wild, they become sexually mature and produce either eggs or sperm.

Just because someone found out how to make them split doesnt mean its good. All anemones have sexual reproductive organs as well.

Bubble tips are colony anemones and will often group together for protection and since they rely on the sun and small morsals of food its easier to get that food when your in a group.

Simply put this is not reproduction, splitting is a defense mechanism. Just like the starfish that loses it arm.

We as aquarist call this reproduction of anemones but its not. A stationary animal only had one way to defend itself, move and give up its prime reef spot or Die. But if it splits it raises its chances of survival by become two animals ensuring that at least one will survive.

Ive done alot of water changes and mine dont split. The one time i did a water change and the heater bumped into the RBTA is when it split.

 

[mladencovic]

First, let me apologise to you and other fellow refers on this forum who will read my rather lengthy reply, but I have found that I disagree on many of your statements, so please do not take my words personally - it is not a p... contest. Rather, think of them as an open discussion, which will probably be still open at the end. And when I ask for the backing, it simply means that I lack specific information, and would be more then glad to read the authoritative source. So here we go

Let me start by saying Splitting is not reproduction of anemone.

Sorry, but it is. Lots of animal and plant species reproduce both sexually and asexually. And that is specially true for class Anthozoa.

...These animals dont look good when they split they look unhealthy...

Of course they don't. THAT is the point of my argument. Splitting requires and wastes energy, and is therefore not attempted in a stressfully situation when the energy is needed to conserve or is being depleted through stressful environment. I would venture that the only species that I know of that reproduces into stressful environment is Homo sapiens sapiens, which really cast the doubt on that sapiens :-\

... Anemones dont split to reproduce in the wild, ...

Please provide the backing for such statement. It is strongly presumed that large colonies (tens or even hundreds) of Heteractis magnifica found in shallow waters off Polynesia are clones.

... its easier to get that food when your in a group. ...

Actually, unless the group has an active cooperative strategy (like wolfpacks, dolphin and whale pods, etc), it is not. In individualistic groups, it is only a competition and the survival of the fittest. But since this has nothing to do with splitting of anemones, lets skip it.

Simply put this is not reproduction, splitting is a defense mechanism. Just like the starfish that loses it arm.

Sorry, but that, it certainly is not. You can't compare it with starfish loosing an arm or some other worms loosing a segment etc. Are you telling me that anyone has documented that, as some fish or a crab has started picking on any anemone, it has split in a matter of seconds or minutes, leaving one part to be devoured while the other part escapes to safety? I have never heard of anything like that. Please provide a backing for something like that. As far as I understand, anemone splitting takes considerable time (hours of actual body division), and that amount of time would make this process completely useless as a defence mechanism from predators.

We as aquarist call this reproduction of anemones but its not. A stationary animal only had one way to defend itself, move and give up its prime reef spot or Die. ...

Fortunately, nature is far more resourcefull then that. Anemones and similar animals have quite a few other defence mechanisms, even if we assume that they are stationary, which they are not. They have their sting to directly defend against one type of predators, they can deflate and hide in rocks or sand against other type of predators, and they can get in symbiotic relationships with other species, against other kinds of predators.

... But if it splits it raises its chances of survival by become two animals ensuring that at least one will survive...

The chances are higher ONLY if the conditions are favorable for supporting TWO animals instead of only ONE. While there are certainly species that have specifically adapted for explicit survival of only one offspring (predatory birds for example), in this cloning process something like that would be very contraproductive, implying that the environment is sufficiently good to support two specimens instead of only one. And that is not a distress.

Ive done alot of water changes and mine dont split. The one time i did a water change and the heater bumped into the RBTA is when it split.

Let me put it this way. Was that the only time that something bumped into it? And hasn't the amount of light, nutrients and water chemistry been the same the day before and the day after? And presumably heater just bumped on it and not stayed on it for prolonged period of time, right? Than this is just a triggering slight shock I was talking about, not a very distressed situation. Wouldn't it be conceivable that the temperature change that the anemone experienced would be something that in the wild it could be associated with a seasonal change of oceans temperature, that would be associated in near future with, lets say, coming abundance of some kind of planktonic life, or leaving of predators for other areas of lower water temperature, or die-off of plankton life that is filtering the light needed by anemones, or by change in currents delivering river runoffs rich in nutrients for zooxanthelas etc, etc. In other words, improvement of environmental conditions that in near future would be able to support more species

What exactly triggers them is yet unknown, and almost certainly each specimen has its own triggering event and set of conditions necessary for successful propagation that differs form one species to another.

Interestingly enough, going back to Heteractis magnifica, the larger specimens, which were always found solitary, were most often found in deeper waters, where presumably, water characteristics would be more stable and less likely to change (either improve or deteriorate).


Anyway enough from me on this topic (to great relief of others reading it )

 

[ReeferNets]

I am completely speaking about in the wild.

I look at is this way if i am a anemone or fish or coral and all of the sudden i notice that the water level and movement is rapidly changing from water being replaced i would be really really pissed and id bee really stressed out.

I just dont think that these animals with out man made conditions reproduce by splitting and i dont think it happens all that often.

By the way the reason why magnificas in the low lying areas mulitply like they do is because they are completely out of water at low tide like alot of other anemones. This i beleive may cause stress to the aminals. and from Joyce wilkersons book its says "In Nature, this anemone lives both singly and in large colonies, One of this species was reported to have cloned in captivity,, so presumeably at least one strain of this species clones." (In Captivity) She goes on to say, " However as with Entacmaea quadricfolor, it is not safe to assume that all Heteractis Magnifica can clone, only that clone specimins can clone again."

Im not trying to start a rift either but these animals dont rip themselves in half so that they can reproduce, its takes alot of energy as you said. Nature is efficient why create an exact replica when you can release thousands of replicas.

 

[concept3]

Anyway, does anyone know how big they will actually get? Also, I have heard that they will multiply. When this happens, how do I get the new one onto a rock that can be taken out of the tank? I have heard that it is very difficult or even impossible to move them without killing them once they have attached.

Thank you in advance for your info!

I have seen one in a friend's 180 about 24 inches in diameter. It never split, and it took almost 30% of his tank. It was located on its own island to the left, and it stayed that way for quite a while. Well, about a year ago, it decided to spawn and released gametes into the water with rather drastic results (don't mean to scare you), but it can happen. I always keep carbon and water handy for just in cases, so did he- I belive the trigger for the gamete release was a larger than normal water change, but i could be wrong, I do know he was battling some kind of red tuft algae in his tank.

Keep an eye on the mouth of the anemone- if it starts getting elongate, this is a sure sign of fission. It is wise now to separate any pieces of Live rock if possible from underneath so that it will not get too far away from the clone, thereby making it easier for you to take out if it does split. A way to make a split and attached anemone is by placing a powerhead directly at its foot, a small one though, or use a turkey baster as mentioned, but i don't have that kind of patience, lol.



See, the great thing about anemones is they can multiply either sexually and asexually. Either way they decide to do it depends on its environmental conditions. When anemones "split" they feel that that their environment is perfect to support the same exact replica of the mother colony. Even though they do tend to use up a little more energy this way, cloning themselves is an easy way to multiply and colonize an area quickly. In the wild, they tend to clone close to each other, often with hundreds of clownfish hosting in them for protection. The release of sperm and eggs offer biodiversity within a species. When this type of reproduction happens, the animals see it fit to change their dna, offering strengths and characteristics within their species. Most anemones will do both within a short period of time, given the parameters. It is easier to make a clone rather than releasing eggs or sperm only to go and search for the same opposite in the vast sea. Disadvantages of a colony made up of clones? When the environment changes and they cannot tolerate it, it usually wipes out the whole community.

Hope this helps somewhat. This is what I learned many moons ago when I was back in school-

Merv

 

[JRWOHLER]

Can I ask you all a question...dont mean to hijack the thread...my question is similar.
I ordered a flower anemone during the group buy. I was under the impression it would stay down in the sand or along some rock but mine decided to move right to the top of the glass. In front where i get to look at its rear end. In any case assuming I cannot move it, or it likes it there, is there any harm done when I do my water changes? It is right at the top of my water line. It has eaten twice(peppermint shrimp and other bit of food). I looks healthy and happy generally speaking. I don't know if I will do more harm moving it or turning him into an amphibian. Any responses are welcome.

 

[concept3]

I would leave him be unless you feel necessary to move it. they are usually ok out of water for a little while for a quick water change, but keep in mind its size- this is not something I would do with an anemone 3 inches or larger inflated with water. Plus, the anemone may move after that first water change anyhows...

 

[mladencovic]

Can I ask you all a question...dont mean to hijack the thread...my question is similar.
I ordered a flower anemone during the group buy. I was under the impression it would stay down in the sand or along some rock but mine decided to move right to the top of the glass. In front where i get to look at its rear end. In any case assuming I cannot move it, or it likes it there, is there any harm done when I do my water changes? It is right at the top of my water line. It has eaten twice(peppermint shrimp and other bit of food). I looks healthy and happy generally speaking. I don't know if I will do more harm moving it or turning him into an amphibian. Any responses are welcome.

When anemone climbs the glass it usually means two things:

a) In most cases the light is not strong enough, and they are "reaching" for it. What kind of lights do you have? How big (deep) is your tank? Rock/Flower anemone like to wedge in the rocks or burry in the sand. Can your aquascaping provide that (DSB or convenient crevices in the rocks)?

b) The quality of water is not good and they are trying to "escape".

Of course there are other possibilities as well, like other tankmates bothering it, flow being too strong or simply searching for optimal place and in its "search algorithm" taking a suboptimal path. But I would still focus on lights and water quality.

As far as I understand Epicystis crucifer is not intertidal, therefore regular exposures to air, unsupported weight and unfiltered lights will be extremly stresful to it.

 

[kathainbowen]

I have seen one in a friend's 180 about 24 inches in diameter.

Sidenote:

Has anyone seen the massive rose bubble at Georgia Aquarium in the big reef tank? Amazing. Just breathtaking. And.... if it really wanted to.... it could probably eat someone's head.

 

[lanceb13]

Alright.......I didn't mean to start the "clone wars" with my question, but thank you all for the information. Clearly anemone reproduction is a topic better left to the professionals or at least to those with more spare time and debate experience then me. So in summation, I can expect it to get much larger if current conditions are maintained, I should expect some type of reproduction at some point whether stressed or content, and I should move all SPS well out of its way. Sounds like a species that will be with us for a long time.

Anyone know how long a single specimen will live in captivity?

 

[JRWOHLER]

When anemone climbs the glass it usually means two things:

a) In most cases the light is not strong enough, and they are "reaching" for it. What kind of lights do you have? How big (deep) is your tank? Rock/Flower anemone like to wedge in the rocks or burry in the sand. Can your aquascaping provide that (DSB or convenient crevices in the rocks)?

b) The quality of water is not good and they are trying to "escape".

Of course there are other possibilities as well, like other tankmates bothering it, flow being too strong or simply searching for optimal place and in its "search algorithm" taking a suboptimal path. But I would still focus on lights and water quality.

As far as I understand Epicystis crucifer is not intertidal, therefore regular exposures to air, unsupported weight and unfiltered lights will be extremly stresful to it.
[/quote]

a) Was under the impression flower or rock anemone were not dependent on high light...thus I avoided GBTA. He has eaten well. I have some nice rock surfaces and a sand bed that is 2-3 inches deep. It is an AP I guess light to depth is 12-14 inches 64w CP. I put him in the sand area and he went right up the wall.

b)water quality is good some phosphate .25..nitrates, nitrates, ammonia are zero...my PH is 8.1 calcium is little low like 380 have been working on getting it up. I do regular water changes(15-25% per week) and all my other corals are doing well.

His placement is not optimal for viewing but feeding is easy haha. Maybe he just wants fed. Generally looks bright and happy from what you can see from his behind.

 

[concept3]

Alright.......I didn't mean to start the "clone wars" with my question, but thank you all for the information. Clearly anemone reproduction is a topic better left to the professionals or at least to those with more spare time and debate experience then me. So in summation, I can expect it to get much larger if current conditions are maintained, I should expect some type of reproduction at some point whether stressed or content, and I should move all SPS well out of its way. Sounds like a species that will be with us for a long time.

Anyone know how long a single specimen will live in captivity?

6 years is what i know of personally.

and yes, it will divide either sexually or asexually- in our closed systems, you want asexual

 

[blange3]

** BLATANT THREAD HIJACK! **

So have LTA's ever reproduced in captivity?

I've had mine about 8 years and it is still going strong.


Thanks, I needed to ask that! ;D

 

[JRWOHLER]

Quick note last night my little guy moved down the wall and settled in the sand. Actually in an almost perfect place against the front of the tank so you can see his foot and everything.