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Invert quarantine?
- Thread starter Chuck_NJ
- Start date
well welcome to the club.
my understanding is that inverts do not carry the same diseases as fish so ill just drip acclimate mine and add them to the tank. i float the bags corals come in and add alittle tank water then remove them from the back and place them, zoathids should be dipped. your also going to want to inspect your pieces (and the tank they are coming from if possible) to see if you notice any pests. ofcourse it wouldnt hurt to QT all this stuff but IMO isnt required.
my understanding is that inverts do not carry the same diseases as fish so ill just drip acclimate mine and add them to the tank. i float the bags corals come in and add alittle tank water then remove them from the back and place them, zoathids should be dipped. your also going to want to inspect your pieces (and the tank they are coming from if possible) to see if you notice any pests. ofcourse it wouldnt hurt to QT all this stuff but IMO isnt required.
Inverts can not host ich but they can carry it in the water in their shells. If you have a LFS that has a seperate system for inverts you should be safe. But if they have the inverts in the same system as the fish the possibility is there. As slight as it may be there is always a chance. So if you want to be 100% certain you are not introducing ich to your system you will need to QT everything that enters your tank. Corals can be dipped. I personally have never dipped a coral so I can not help with that. Good Luck.
Chuck_NJ said:
Snails are very very sensitive to Alkalinity differences. If you just drop them in, they will be dead for sure. You need to drip acclimate them.
Personally I don't know anyone the QT's snails. I also notice that *most* LFS have their inverts in a different system then fish/corals.
Don't think the LFS are putting inverts in a seperate system for QT reasons. The primary reason is to save on salt and maintenance.
Phil,
I don't think that snails are that sensitive to changes. They're usually shipped almost dry and I've moved snails from varying SG/alk with no ill effects. Remember, they constantly crawl out into the air as well. Snails and hermits when ordered online say just temp acclimate and drop in.
Phil,
I don't think that snails are that sensitive to changes. They're usually shipped almost dry and I've moved snails from varying SG/alk with no ill effects. Remember, they constantly crawl out into the air as well. Snails and hermits when ordered online say just temp acclimate and drop in.
calaxa said:
I drip acclimate everything.
Most livestock vendors require accliamation of inverts, including snails, in order for their guarantees to apply. Read the policies on TB Aquatics and Reeftopias sites. Please point me to a site that has an acclimation guide that says
TB Aquatics, the vendor for the current invert group buy, requires acclimation.
New users need to weigh advice given in these forums carefully after receiving input from multiple reefers.
A big +1 for acclimating.
blange3 said:calaxa said:
I drip acclimate everything.
Most livestock vendors require accliamation of inverts, including snails, in order for their guarantees to apply. Read the policies on TB Aquatics and Reeftopias sites. Please point me to a site that has an acclimation guide that says
TB Aquatics, the vendor for the current invert group buy, requires acclimation.
New users need to weigh advice given in these forums carefully after receiving input from multiple reefers.
A big +1 for acclimating.
blange,
I'm unable to find a site that says that specifically but explain to me how drip acclimating a dry specimen would help? I've ordered snails from garf, ipsf, and swf and all bags were completely dry, save the turbos I got which I guess are more sensitive to changes (and I emphasize dry...not a single drop came out of the bag). As soon as the drip occurs they are 100% in my tank's water, whether the drip be 5 seconds or 3 hours. I disagree that drip acclimation is always the best method, though in most cases it is. It should be reviewed on a case by case basis. If the shipping water is severely fouled, it is better to prepare a container matching the levels of the shipment water and do a direct transfer.
I would CYA too if I specialized in selling only inverts and would tell customers to drip acclimate everything, doesn't mean that it needs to be that for every case.
Actually, the paper instructions from swf and garf say to temp acclimate and drop in the nerite snails. I'll try to find them but I am pretty sure I tossed them out.
I plan on floating and dripping (pretty much). Some of my hermits will go in the QT tank (anti-malaria meds right now...), but only because I don't want that many crabs in my DT since they are future meals for the mantis
I dripped when I started, but that got annoying quickly due to water temp differences. First I turn off all the lights. So, now I float the bag for about 30 minutes and then every 15-30 minutes I add a shotglass full of tank water to the bag - depending on the volume of water in the bag. I usually let it go at least 1 hour, but it depends on what i'm adding and how much time I have.
I dripped when I started, but that got annoying quickly due to water temp differences. First I turn off all the lights. So, now I float the bag for about 30 minutes and then every 15-30 minutes I add a shotglass full of tank water to the bag - depending on the volume of water in the bag. I usually let it go at least 1 hour, but it depends on what i'm adding and how much time I have.
Calaxa,
If based on your extensive experience you chose to simply float and drop, go ahead.
I disagree with you and GARF on many things, but I really don't care to engage in a debate with you about this.
I drip.
Phil drips.
Reeftopia drips.
TB Aquatics drips.
Keys Critters says don't drip if your tank is 1.025 and 78 degrees; otherwise drip.
Live aquaria recommends dripping under each snail's description and specifies that inverts are more sensitve to changes to SG than other livestock.
We all drip, you don't.
Let each make their own informed decision.
If you still don't grasp the 'why' when things are shipped damp, you need to study the phisiology of most marine animals and contrast their relationship to the surronding water as opposed to most freshwater animals and you might get a clue.
If based on your extensive experience you chose to simply float and drop, go ahead.
I disagree with you and GARF on many things, but I really don't care to engage in a debate with you about this.
I drip.
Phil drips.
Reeftopia drips.
TB Aquatics drips.
Keys Critters says don't drip if your tank is 1.025 and 78 degrees; otherwise drip.
Live aquaria recommends dripping under each snail's description and specifies that inverts are more sensitve to changes to SG than other livestock.
We all drip, you don't.
Let each make their own informed decision.
If you still don't grasp the 'why' when things are shipped damp, you need to study the phisiology of most marine animals and contrast their relationship to the surronding water as opposed to most freshwater animals and you might get a clue.
I drip and I remember Bluezoo said to drip. I always figure it doesn't hurt to drip. If you are new to the hobbie IMHO do the cautious thing and drip EVERYTHING like me . QT, drip, keep your livestock warm, and get it out of the shipping package as quickly as possible. I mean who wants to live in a plastic bag.
. QT, drip, keep your livestock warm, and get it out of the shipping package as quickly as possible. I mean who wants to live in a plastic bag.I want to clarify what I said earlier since blange informed me that I may have misled people.
I made some assumptions that everyone's tank was near NSW params. I myself drip most livestock I receive, simply because the shipping water has deviated from NSW. I will always check temp/ph/SG of the shipping water and make the assessment as to the best course of action for acclimation. If those 3 params are close, I will not drip as it is my belief that my water will be better than the shipping water they come in on and prolonging their exposure to it is not the best thing to do. If the params are not near and the shipping water appears to be fine, I will start a drip. If the shipping water appears polluted and the params are not near mine, I will prepare water with same pH/SG/temp and transfer livestock there then prepare to drip. If there is very little to no shipping water (which does occur more often than you think), I don't see how exposing the specimen to air for prolonged periods of time is of any value and would temp acclimate. If I drip these, the water becomes basically my water within seconds or minutes and I'm just subjecting the specimen to exposure to air for extended periods of time. That is what I meant by case by case assessment.
Now if you look at the physiology of some of these inverts, it is true that most live in very stable conditions and need the drip acclimation. This is not a hard and fast rule for every invert out there and probably why some vendors ship certain inverts dry (or maybe they are too cheap to put water). Several years ago, people said you can never expose a starfish or anemone to air. Just one look at many starfish and you find them in tide pools, estuaries, etc., where exposure to air/varying temps and SG are constantly occurring. Many experts (Calfo has said this many time and I think Pro and Fenner have agreed with him...I'll include his quote and explantion so there will be no misunderstanding) now say the best method to ship anemones are completely dry (I myself don't like this).
How do I know my params are near NSW? I check my SG at least 2x/week on every system to make sure. I calibrate the refract every 2-4 weeks (will actually get a second refract cause calibrating all the time is annoying). I have redundant pH meters. I check all calc/dkH at least weekly and strive for 2x/week. I check my temp against 2 thermometers, one in system, one portable. So, if you don't know your own params accurately, the consensus is correct and drip everything.
As for GARF, well, you can see my review on that place but if you are lazy and don't wanna search.....AVOID!
Anthony Calfo's take on anemone shipping from marinedepot forum dated 10/29/2006:
I made some assumptions that everyone's tank was near NSW params. I myself drip most livestock I receive, simply because the shipping water has deviated from NSW. I will always check temp/ph/SG of the shipping water and make the assessment as to the best course of action for acclimation. If those 3 params are close, I will not drip as it is my belief that my water will be better than the shipping water they come in on and prolonging their exposure to it is not the best thing to do. If the params are not near and the shipping water appears to be fine, I will start a drip. If the shipping water appears polluted and the params are not near mine, I will prepare water with same pH/SG/temp and transfer livestock there then prepare to drip. If there is very little to no shipping water (which does occur more often than you think), I don't see how exposing the specimen to air for prolonged periods of time is of any value and would temp acclimate. If I drip these, the water becomes basically my water within seconds or minutes and I'm just subjecting the specimen to exposure to air for extended periods of time. That is what I meant by case by case assessment.
Now if you look at the physiology of some of these inverts, it is true that most live in very stable conditions and need the drip acclimation. This is not a hard and fast rule for every invert out there and probably why some vendors ship certain inverts dry (or maybe they are too cheap to put water). Several years ago, people said you can never expose a starfish or anemone to air. Just one look at many starfish and you find them in tide pools, estuaries, etc., where exposure to air/varying temps and SG are constantly occurring. Many experts (Calfo has said this many time and I think Pro and Fenner have agreed with him...I'll include his quote and explantion so there will be no misunderstanding) now say the best method to ship anemones are completely dry (I myself don't like this).
How do I know my params are near NSW? I check my SG at least 2x/week on every system to make sure. I calibrate the refract every 2-4 weeks (will actually get a second refract cause calibrating all the time is annoying). I have redundant pH meters. I check all calc/dkH at least weekly and strive for 2x/week. I check my temp against 2 thermometers, one in system, one portable. So, if you don't know your own params accurately, the consensus is correct and drip everything.
As for GARF, well, you can see my review on that place but if you are lazy and don't wanna search.....AVOID!
Anthony Calfo's take on anemone shipping from marinedepot forum dated 10/29/2006:
Chuck -
There is another method that can be done with snails - and that would be to hold them above the water line until they affix to the glass, then let them take their sweet time deciding whether to go into the water or not.
That stated, you really cannot go wrong with drip and temp acclimating.
p.s the method above was recommended to me by dr.ron shimek. I did it with nerite snails in the past and all was fine. The fact that my hermits dined on the nerites later is another topic...
will i do it this go round? nope. My arm gets too tired holding the dang things. Drip/Temp acclimate!
There is another method that can be done with snails - and that would be to hold them above the water line until they affix to the glass, then let them take their sweet time deciding whether to go into the water or not.
That stated, you really cannot go wrong with drip and temp acclimating.
p.s the method above was recommended to me by dr.ron shimek. I did it with nerite snails in the past and all was fine. The fact that my hermits dined on the nerites later is another topic...
will i do it this go round? nope. My arm gets too tired holding the dang things. Drip/Temp acclimate!
Hawk,
I'm guessing nerites must live in tidal pools cause they're the ones I usually get dry shipped. That's not a bad method for acclimation but that's pretty annoying cause some of them don't like to come out right away.
Edit starts here...did you say Dr. Ron? The guy who wrote up the S-15 salt report on reefkeeping? I had said that was a nice idea for acclimation but now that I know the source is Dr. Ron, I'm gonna run far away from that method. I don't know who might have paid him to say that.
In case you don't know about the S-15 report, it's a very good read. Just realize there was some type of hidden agenda involved and it got trashed by a lot of hobbyists.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.php
I'm guessing nerites must live in tidal pools cause they're the ones I usually get dry shipped. That's not a bad method for acclimation but that's pretty annoying cause some of them don't like to come out right away.
Edit starts here...did you say Dr. Ron? The guy who wrote up the S-15 salt report on reefkeeping? I had said that was a nice idea for acclimation but now that I know the source is Dr. Ron, I'm gonna run far away from that method. I don't know who might have paid him to say that.
In case you don't know about the S-15 report, it's a very good read. Just realize there was some type of hidden agenda involved and it got trashed by a lot of hobbyists.
http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-03/rs/feature/index.php