lateral line not going away

[sdrieger]

ok, so heres my situation. i have a temporary 55 setup with a 5" orange shoulder, 3" imporator, 3" blueface and a 3" naso along with a couple smaller fish. i do 5 gallon water changes every couple days, their diet goes something like this...

they eat a very varied diet consisting of mysis, spirulina brine, regular brine, marine cuisine, emerald entree, clam, salt water multi-pack by san. fran. they eat 3 times a day and its never the same stuff. IE: mysis in the am, clam in the afternoon, and brine at night, and the next day is something different. once a day i dose their food with garlic extreme.

now for the problem, the orange shoulder and blueface where the first 2 added and the orange shoulder got lateral line which started going away. than the blueface got it but you can barley tell unless you realllllly look. now its kinda present on the imporator and present on the naso which i only purchased this past sunday the 13 i believe. why isnt it going away? it fades and looks like its getting better but it hasnt gone away fully. i wanna make sure i fix this and dont have to deal with it after i setup my 125 and start getting the more expensive and rarer angels. how have some of you combated it?

 

[jceli728]

Please do your research before you buy fish. Minimum tank requirements for any of the fish you have are at least 100g. They are really stressed out on that 55, and even when you get into that 125g I personally think is going to be tooooooo smallllll for all those fish. I will suggest looking at a 180g or bigger if you want to maintain nice healthy fish.

 

[sdrieger]

advice taken but a 125 for those 4 fish is plenty at there size for a while, and from there another upgrade will be made when the time is right. as of right now they are fine, no aggression, no nit picking, they all just do their own thing, so its not a stress factor. ive seen 150 with 7 tangs and 5 angels all 5" or better and not one with LLE. so i know its not the tank size. especially since 2 of them developed it when there was only 2 of them. and just because i dont have tons of post under my belt doesnt mean i dont know what im doing. ive been involved and keeping salt water for over 5 years already and know my share of tricks and who will go with what in what size tank. which is my this problem boggles me.

 

[jceli728]

Don't take it the wrong way... I din't even realize how many post you had. Its just my personal opinion and why I think it might be happening. If number of post counts I'll let one of the big dogs here with 1,274,340 post answer your question.

 

[sdrieger]

didnt mean to sound like number of post counted but if you read my entire post you would have noticed the problem started with only 2 fish being in the tank which rules out over crowding. but people in forums generally take a look at the amount of times people posted or the date they sign up and automatically your a noob when it comes to this. i was a member on this forum way back when it first started and have been on periodically but couldnt figure out my information so i had to re-register.

i know it wasnt due to stress because there wasnt tons of fish when the problem started and i began treating. its not dietary because they eat better than me. it cant be water quality because im anal with the changes and top offs, 2 canisters, uv, and a skimmer. its not from where i got them from because i got them from the people who probably supply alot of the NJ fish stores. i know im missing something somewhere that can give it the final push to go away. just dont know what it is...

 

[calaxa]

Are you absolutely sure it's HLLE? Could it be just stress color or diurnal color change? HLLE is one of those things where it's hard to figure out what's causing it. Could be so many things. Attach a picture if possible but here are some things to take a look at:

Nutrition (sounds like this isn't it)
Overcrowding (possible...you are starting to overcrowd them there)
Territorial dispute (possible 2 angels and 2 tangs in confined space...create more zones and monitor their interaction with each other more carefully)
Environmental (double check water params....it might not be as good as you think...recalibrate instruments if possible....perform a larger water change instead of the small ones you are doing)
Parasite (some forms of HLLE are caused by disease....FW dips to remove ectoparasites and see if there is improvement....treat with antibiotic but be sure you are dealing with disease first)
Voltage (GFCI + grounding probe might help....check for any faulty equipment)
Excessive carbon (some suggest this can trigger it...don't really believe this one though)

I'm sure I missed a few others but unfortunately HLLE is one of those mysterious things.

 

[JerseyWendy]

I'm sorry, I won't even try and be gentle and tactful with this one: How can you possibly keep those fish in a 55? Even if it's temporary, and you're planning on putting them in a 125, that's still too small, especially for a Naso. They need room. And tons of it. As do the other fish you mentioned you're keeping. :

 

[sdrieger]

thank you calaxa for the actual helpful response. i did happen to have a ground probe laying around that i hooked up really quick. and it looks like LLE to me. stretching from the head curving up and down to the tail. they rarely even bump let alone antagonize eachother. they really all just swim around doing there thing. ill recheck water today and im pretty sure everything is dead on.

never knew carbon could be a contributing factor??? i doubt it would be since im only running one pack in the marineland canister and biological in the rena. but thats a new one.

and the naso is 2.5 maybe 3 inch. as stated a 55 is plenty big for him right now. an in a couple weeks when the cycle breaks they will be in the bigger tank and from there we go bigger. not saying the 125 will be the final tank for them, but i have 3 of them laying around and untill i hit the lotto it will have to do

 

[sdrieger]

UPDATE: after the lights heated up today and i took a closer look at everything. it seems the angels are fine really, and its only the orange shoulder which was my original fish to contract it that still has it. whatever it was on the naso faded to almost being gone unless he turns his body a certain way. but the orange should has had it for about a month and nothing i do makes it go away.

 

[calaxa]

The carbon theory was suggested by some on WWM but like I said, I don't believe this at all. It just proves how mysterious LLE can be. Now you say it's on the naso only but again I have to ask...are you positive? The naso has that faint line that you describe as a normal characteristic of the fish and it does go away as they fatten up. That's what it sounds like to me and why I ask you to be absolutely sure. To be honest, it sounds like you are being paranoid over something that doesn't exist.

 

[sdrieger]

the naso was not irregularly thin when i got him but he is fattening up with what and how much i feed. it could be a paranoia case since i spotted it on the orange should who is as fat as can be and its still there. and once the naso was introduced along with the imporator it showed the very same line just faint. its starting to go away on the naso like i said to where you cant see it unless he turns a certain way. but the orange shoulder, although its fading, is still noticeable. better safe than sorry i guess and since he had it the longest and it hasnt gone away i started getting nervous because ive cured LLE before doing exactly what im doing now in a purple, and it didnt take this long to do it.

 

[JRWOHLER]

I think voltage like calaxa said is the major thing I think.

I disagree with not doing the smaller water changes, but it is just my opinion that more smaller water changes are better.

Could still be overcrowding....you say they get along but the number of fish you mention is packed for a 55. Plus honestly you glossed over what other fish you have after you mentioned the 4 big ones. I have a naso and hippo in a 125 it is really boardline I guess. If you have a couple 125s laying around how about a single system with two DT. Split your larger fish up?

 

[sdrieger]

the other fish is a small clown maybe an 1" and a coule 3/4" purple reef damsels.

i like the many small water changes better than one big one..more fresh salt water is being circulated to keep water perams in check rather than letting them build even if its for a day than doing one big change. plus with the amount i feed, i feel more comfortable doing 2 or 3 small ones a week.

i would love to do 1 big system. ive been cleared from the lady to do one huge tank which ive decided will be around 3-5 hundred somewhere in that range but right now the way things are going i have 1 125 and 1 stand so i gotta make due with what i have. i got all 4 of these fish at once because they were the deffinate ones i wanted and i didnt wanna add one, let him stake claim, than add another one and a fight, than another one and a fight. the last angels and tangs ill be getting wont be till the new tank is ready for fish and ill be getting them small just like what i have now to buy me more time before i have to upgrade to my final tank.

ANYWAYS: the naso looks alot better after the 5th feeding today. hes gotten REALLY fat and you can hardly notice the line anymore. blueface looks gorgeous as always and the imporator is fine. just the orange shoulder still. hopefully it clears up for good soon. i hate seeing that minor flaw.

 

[JRWOHLER]

Well a 3-4 hundred gallon tank with give you a lot of room that is for sure.
I understood incorrectly that you had multiple 125s.
I would hold off adding more tangs or angels even in a 125, what you have should be fine but if you add more you are taking a chance...then when you really go huge make that next step. Assuming the fish you have grow at a fast rate they will very very likely become more aggressive as they get more mature in size. Then you try to add another fish and you have a war. :'(

Of course that is just my opinion. You might make it work and you can stick your tongue out at me but I would rather see happy healthy fish.

 

[calaxa]

I actually agree that the multiple small water changes is better but was suggesting that in this particular case, IF it is a water quality issue, a large water change would fix up the water problem much faster than multiple small ones.

Anyway, good to hear things are looking better.

 

[JRWOHLER]

I actually agree that the multiple small water changes is better but was suggesting that in this particular case, IF it is a water quality issue, a large water change would fix up the water problem much faster than multiple small ones.

Anyway, good to hear things are looking better.

Sorry I misunderstood that makes sense.

 

[Gecko]

I agree you have a small tank for the fish you mentioned and you are feeding them 3 times a day. I also read that you are doing a lot of water changes which is good but are you keeping up? I would reduce feeding two once a day. I am strong believer that HLLE is caused by water quality.

BTW what are your water parameters?

 

[sdrieger]

water is actually good. i pretty much do a change every 2 days or so just to correct things if they are going wrong or the params are rising. ammonia is pretty close to zero, but under .25, nitrates are 0, nitrites are 0, salinity is 1.024 actually, temp is 72-74. basic params are pretty much perfect. i import fish full time for right now so im home all day and pay VERY close attention to the tank so i keep up on it alot.

JR: thats my only problem is the fish i do have now are VERY territorial when they get comfortable, so waiting to upgrade to add the rest of my collection for the final upgrade will cost a couple expensive fish their life. i may sacrifice some of the ones i really wanted and just grab 2 or 3 more when i get the 125 and call it a day for a while. the fish i have now are pretty common and i want that "prized" angel that you dont see hardly anywhere. so im going to pick and choose the next few ones carefully.

i really appreciate all the responses guys, everys ones advice helped out alot.

 

[JRWOHLER]

Well as you move into new tanks you can add the new fish first and then the fish you have. That will help.
You can always do the rock rearranging thing to confuse them.

What kind of fish are you importing?

 

[sdrieger]

yea thats what i wanted to do. i started a thread in the FO section to get opinions on my "trophy" angel and tang that ill add when the 125 is finished cycling. i import saltwater for now. sell to a couple fish stores but nothing big, mostly to friends who dont feel like going up north and buying a 180.00 3 inch queen angel and think they got a deal. im all about preserving the reefs and the fish in them, but at the same i dont like seeing people getting ripped off.