Low pH is killing me

[RichT]

To the point I want to bail. Looking at very unhappy, dieing, or dead coral is wearing on me.

It's pretty obvious it's due to the air conditioner being on and the house closed up. I know the simple answer is opening the house but then there will be a heat issue to deal with and a hot and bothered family. Once the temp looks like it will stay around 81 or lower for a couple days I'll do just that.

What I've done so far:
•Have 2 larger air pumps feeding 3 larger air stones in my sump. Looks like a pot of boiling water in my skimmer compartment.
•Stopped using the Ca Reactor - Switched back to 2 part.
•Added a Kalk Reactor for all the top off water.
•Recently changed 120g of 150g TWICE!!!
•Changed the deep sand bed in the fuge.
•Set up a fan to blow on the sump as soon as the pH drops below 7.98 to promote evaporation so the ATO calls for more Kalk water.
•Calibrated, checked and re-checked the probes.
•Tried an Ani unit

When I'm home and it gets below 7.9 I dose some Kalk slurry. Within 3 hours it's dropped like a rock and again heading below 7.9. I wake up to 7.8 pretty regularly.

I know there are fresh air exchangers but they are pretty expensive and the funds aren't available.

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated because I'm getting very frustrated.


Oh! and I've change the bulbs in hopes that the new ones would, if even a little, help the corals. I can't remember the last time I've seen the polyps on my sps.

 

[vangvace]

Is the fuge run on a reverse photoperiod running? Running an hour before the main display lights go off until an hour after the main lights come back on?

What's you Alk, Ca, and Mg? In particular Mg.

When I was in Utah many reefers had that problem. Many would run an airline (or slightly larger) from the skimmer to an outside window to get outside air into the tank. Then they used towels or something to close up the window crack to stop the draft. Depending on where your tank is located to may be able to run the line through your basement or attic as well.

You could even just cut a notch out of the nearby window sill to run the airline though and keep the window shut. Then caulk the notch with the airline in place to seal it back up.

 

[Phyl]

How about drilling a tiny hole into the basement (about where the big hole will go) that you can use to feed that air tube down? If your house has too much CO2 (which we're assuming here since the water is not the problem), you will see high alk and low PH, yes? Hopefully adding an air source not in your living space will be the ticket. Otherwise it should be easier to get it to a window. The bubbler itself isn't enough to help with the CO2 issue if the house has an overabundance unless the air source is external to the house.

Keep the fan on 24/7. Let it top off like MAD. But even this is going to raise your alk higher than your PH will be able to go due to the CO2. That's the problem that you really need to solve. Hmm...

Plants? Lots of big leaf green plants in your tank area. Where they can benefit from your Metal Halides would be a plus. You need a way of converting the CO2 and this is the best way I can think of...

 

[Jcurry@wesketch]

Is it possible to install a dryer vent on the side of the house? You can have a fan in your canopy draw air from the outside and into your canopy. This would help with the heat and add fresh air. Or like others have suggested running a 1/2" dia. tube from your skimmer to the outside would help. Just cut out the sheetrock and drill a hole through the sole plate into the basement, along the joist bay and through the rim joist. If you wanted to get fancy you could hook the tube up to a hose bid to hide the tubing on the outside.

 

[Rbu1]

I would be real scared to put something outside that is being sucked into my tank. What happens when you neighbor sprays something? Or you forget the line is outside and spray some weed killer. I would take a good look at all my water parameters to make sure there is not something else real out of whack.

 

[dnov99]

Rich, I have had the same problem, what I have been doing and it has helped, is when I get up in the morning (6 AM) I turn of the AC and open up all the windows in the house. This airs out the whole house and gets rid of all the excess CO2 that has built up. Usually by 11:00 it starts to warm up too much so its back to the AC.

By doing this my PH used to range from 7.85-8.0, now its 8.1-8.3.

Good luck, hope this helps.

 

[vangvace]

^^ This could be done at night as well with similar results ^^

Might not fix the issue come winter time

 

[blange3]

What are you using for your 2-part?

If you use washing soda, baking soda baked in an oven to drive out the CO2 and moisture, for the alkalinity; it raises the ph as well.

 

[Baxreefs]

As has been said, sounds like you ned a fresh air source to your equipment area. Dryer vent with a small fan sounds like a plan.The caution regarding the vent being where someone might spray something into it is a valid point. I know I am not at home when they spray my house for carpenter bees. All I every see is the bill! :

 

[RichT]

Is the fuge run on a reverse photoperiod running? Running an hour before the main display lights go off until an hour after the main lights come back on?

Should have added that to my list of tries. Made no noticable difference.

What's you Alk, Ca, and Mg? In particular Mg

All on the high side of acceptable range. Checked with Salifert, double checked with API

Thanks

 

[RichT]

Otherwise it should be easier to get it to a window. The bubbler itself isn't enough to help with the CO2 issue if the house has an overabundance unless the air source is external to the house.

Both pumps are hanging outside the window. All fresh air being pumped.

Keep the fan on 24/7. Let it top off like MAD. But even this is going to raise your alk higher than your PH will be able to go due to the CO2. That's the problem that you really need to solve. Hmm...

The fans are set to come on at 7.98. With the tendency for the pH to be below that, they are pretty much on 18/7.

Plants? Lots of big leaf green plants in your tank area. Where they can benefit from your Metal Halides would be a plus. You need a way of converting the CO2 and this is the best way I can think of...

Have a couple mangroves in the sump but probably not enought to make a difference. There are a couple small plants around. Guess I'll have to find some chicken plants and give it a try.

Thanks

 

[RichT]

Is it possible to install a dryer vent on the side of the house?  You can have a fan in your canopy draw air from the outside and into your canopy.

I was thinking of this but it's pretty evasive and I was hoping to avoid it. I was kinda concerned that pulling in larger amounts of 85+/humid air would have an adverse affect on many things. And vise verse in the winter. Also, the suggestion of contaminants would be a concern as well. I gotta kick that one around and see what I can come up with.

Is CO2 is heavier then regular air?

Thanks

 

[RichT]

I would take a good look at all my water parameters to make sure there is not something else real out of whack. 

Using test kits from 2 different manufactures and getting similar results, I'm pretty confident Ca, Alk, Mg, and NO3 is in check. Plus, I've been calibrating the pH probe frequently lately and am confident in what the AC3 is telling me as well.

Is there another parameter that would effect the pH that I should test?

Thanks

 

[RichT]

Rich, I have had the same problem, what I have been doing and it has helped, is when I get up in the morning (6 AM) I turn of the AC and open up all the windows in the house. This airs out the whole house and gets rid of all the excess CO2 that has built up. Usually by 11:00 it starts to warm up too much so its back to the AC.

By doing this my PH used to range from 7.85-8.0, now its 8.1-8.3.

I'm pretty sure this would cause my already $950 electric to top $1000!!!!!

As soon as I see a couple days forecast to be 80 or below the windows will be open for sure.

It's suppose to get down to the upper 60's low 70's tonight. Maybe I'll open up the windows tonight and see what I get when I close them before work and when I get home.

thanks

 

[RichT]

What are you using for your 2-part?

If you use washing soda, baking soda baked in an oven to drive out the CO2 and moisture, for the alkalinity; it raises the ph as well.

I'm using Randy's two part with baked baking soda. It raises the pH alright but drops like a rock in a hour or so.

Advice: don't try and use the Ca solution you just made to mix with the baked baking soda. Grab the right jug or you'll be making more.


****Note to self**** pick up some more baking soda on the way home tonight. You need to make more 2 part dummy!

 

[Rbu1]

As long as your other parameters are normal like you state they are and you feel the test kits are good then I would just continue what you are doing. It is supposed to go down to 67 tonight so you may be able to open some windows to see if that could be your problem. I have my tank in the basement an my home is 4 years old. I would think I would be the one having the PH issues. Just make sure your probe is accurate and your test kits are new. I would hate to see you go thru all this dosing to find another issue.

 

[RichT]

I had my wife open all the windows when she got home at 4:30. By the time I got home at 6:30 the pH was at 7.99 up from a low of 7.85. So all that really does is confirm my statement in the beginning of the thread that it's obviously caused by the house being closed up although it's never been this bad. I don't think the aquarium air pumps are gonna do it next time I have to close the windows. I guess I'm going to have to bite the bullet and put a dryer vent in with a small cooling fan like Jeff suggested. 

Where's the drill!

 

[Phyl]

CO2 is heavier than air. If you have a big head space over your sump water to the edge of the sump the CO2 will sit in there and not rise out. That's where the fans are supposed to help some. They push the heavy CO2 laden air up out of the sump. Of course if you're exchanging that with CO2 dense air then you're tank water isn't able to off gas the CO2 into the air either.

Adding the baked baking soda will likely up your alk as well, which could lead to high alk and associated problems. Your problem is largely a CO2 problem which has to be fixed in order to go away. Plants are the biggest consumers of CO2 so nice big leafy chicken house plants will help more than anything else...except for possibly the dryer vent, but that's not something I'd be doing for all of the reasons you've already mentioned... and then some!

 

[vangvace]

Both pumps are hanging outside the window. All fresh air being pumped.

The bubbles might not have enough contact time with the water to be effective. The surface agitation from the bubbles has a much greater effect on gas exchange. That could be why opening the windows works but having the pumps outside wouldn't.

If you can hook the outside airlines to your skimmer (not sure if you are running one or it's possible for you) it will increase the time the fresh air is in contact with the water and help purge the CO2 from the water.

If you use washing soda, baking soda baked in an oven to drive out the CO2 and moisture, for the alkalinity; it raises the ph as well.

Don't forget though that the Ph effect that baking/washing soda has is only temporary and doesn't last long.

 

[RichT]

A bit of good news and as expected, the pH was at 8.05 this morning instead of 7.8. This further proves (to me anyway) that the water is not the problem. I did a quick check on the alk and ca last night and they were 8 and 430 respectively.

What I don't understand is, for the last 4 years, the pH usually bottomed out at 7.95 - 7.90 and topped at 8.1 - 8.15 when the house was closed up. The two/three time's I had the house closed up this summer, the bottom was 7.8 topping at 7.95 unless I dosed Kalk which would only be a short lived raise to 8.1+-/. I would imagine the low levels coupled with the constant swing are the contributing factor of the overall poor health of the corals at this time. I wonder what is causing the increased dip in the pH.

Also, if the CO2 levels are so bad that it causes this problem with the tank, why am I not walking around dizzier then I usually am.