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My 30 gallon cube tank - help!

I have a 30 gallon Oceanic cube which has been running for about a year and 9 months now. It has a 2-3" sand bed, about 40 lbs. of live rock, a variety of coral (both soft and hard), an RBTA, 2 clowns, and a variety of clean up crew (hermits, snails, peppermint shrimp, a serpent star, etc.). I have a 150 watt MH (14K Phoenix) with 2 18 watt pc actinics over the tank, a CPR bak-pak type skimmer, and 4 mj 900 powerheads hooked to a wavemaker for flow. I was using IO salt, but recently (a few weeks ago) switched to Reef Crystals (I read somewhere that IO salt might contribute to cyano). I use RO/DI water (new filters/membrane/resin about a month ago, even though the TDS was at zero, it is still at zero after the replacing everything) for top off and for my salt water mix. I will retest all my water parameters tonight or tomorrow and update with that info, but the last time I checked everything (a week and a couple days ago) the nitrates were up very slightly, but everything else looked ok. I didn't test for the phosphates because I have bought 2 different test kits and neither seems accurate. What I mean by this is that I will get a result showing very low to no phosphates and immediately retest and show mid-high phosphates. I think the phosphate test kits leave a lot to be desired in the accuracy department.

Anyway, with the basic info down, I will move on to the reason for my posting.

In January I moved from central NJ back to PA. Unfortunately, I had to be out of my apartment on 1/31 and I didn't close on my house until 2/15. In the meantime, the tank was reset up the same day I moved it at my parents house. Once I closed on my new house, the renovation work began (it needed a lot, even though it was built in 2001, the prior owners were foreclosed on and had trashed the place). Due to the renovation, the tank did not get moved to the new house until late April. During its stay at my parents house it was very neglected. The only thing done to it during that time was water top off (with RO/DI water) and B-ionic supplement every few days. The bak-pak skimmer is finicky, so there were times where that was flowing, but not producing skimmate. I was staying at my new house because it was 40 miles closer to my new job, but the new house wasn't tank ready yet (floors torn up, painting being done, etc.).

While the tank was at my parents I lost quite a few corals, including (forgive the spelling) my pocillipora, which I had grown from a frag, a purple cap frag, a green cap frag, a few varieties of zoas, a birdsnest frag, a large purple tip digi colony (except a tiny piece that I fragged off, but that might not make it either), my really cool blue clam, and most of my orange digi colony. I might be missing a few losses, I try not to think about it. I also began having a hair algae outbreak. Prior to this my tank was always pristine, no algae of any kind, other than coralline and a bit of brown diatom when it cycled originally. Since I moved it to my house, not only has the hair algae worsened, but now I have red slime on top of it, literally, the red slime is growing on the hair algae (and on my live rock, and on certain pieces of coral). When I do my water changes I vacuum off the slime algae and try to manually remove the hair algae, but the very next day when the lights come on there is more red slime. I also tried reducing my light cycle to 5 hours a day, but there does not seem to have been any effect. At this point I am even afraid to feed the fish, anemone, sun coral for fear of adding load to the tank.

Can anyone give me some advice on this tank, I am tired of seeing it a mess and nothing I do seems to help! I am seriously considering removing all the liverock and scrubbing it with a brush and returning it to the tank as a next step. However, I tried this with a few smaller pieces already and the hair algae came right back. I also tried adding a sea hare, but it just hangs out on the glass or hides in the rocks, I dont think it has touched the hair algae. To make matters worse, my favorite fish - a six line wrasse, jumped out shortly after I moved the tank (he must have squeezed out by the back there the skimmer inlet is, the rest has egg crate over it). Now I have a booming population of bristleworms. I don't think they are bothering anything, but they are just plain gross.

I would like to add a sump and a better skimmer. In fact, the stand has already been slightly modified to accommodate a sump. I have a sump I purchased, a new skimmer for the sump, a CPR overflow box, a sump pump (I think a mag 7 or something like that), and an "aqualifter pump". I also have all the hoses and fittings I need ready to go. To be perfectly honest, I am really uncomfortable with adding the sump by myself since I know so little about them. I need a bit of guidance on this because I am very afraid of overflowing the tank or sump, especially since the flooring is all new in my house.

So, that is the situation. I am open to constructive criticism, suggestions, comments, sympathy, lol. I do want very much to make this tank right. I tried to set it up the right way, but this neglect really set me back and I am having trouble correcting it! I apologize for the lengthy post, but I wanted to try to explain this as clearly as possible.

Thanks,
Tina
 

Subliminal

NJRC Member
Tina,

I'm by no means an expert, but I have excelled at alge growth in the past.

You didn't mention what temperature the tank has been. When I had hair algae really bad, my tank was in the low 80s and the hair seemed to thrive.

If you test your water right now, what do you get?

Maybe in the shuffle(s) you disturbed the sandbed which led to a spike in something and contributed to your breakout?

I notice when i mess with my tank everything goes downhill compared to just staying the course.

Do you use a fuge or macroalgae? Macro will compete with the micro for nutrients, and with constant water changes should outweigh them.

Take apart your powerheads and clean them? The red stuff usually shows up in areas of low flow...

Anyway, just a few suggestions for ya.

Good luck, and don't give up!

:)
 

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Sorry to hear about your losses. Sounds like the tank's been through a pretty tough time. Hang in there, it can only get better, right?

What kind of lighting are you using and when was the last time you changed bulbs? Have you done any massive water changes to get it back to a good water quality? Have you ran the gammut of tests to see exactly what's out of wack?

As for the new sump... don't be intimidated! It isn't nearly as hard as it sounds. Put a box of water under your tank. Fill it up. Push water up to the main tank at something less than what is able to flow back down. Put float switch in the sump (if the water level gets too low) and the overflow box (if the water level gets too high) to prevent catestrophic failures.
 
Thanks for the quick replies.

The tank never gets above 80.5, it usually stays around 79, I keep a/c on in that room during the summer and I always keep my house 65-68 during the cooler months.

I ran the tests a little over a week ago and only the nitrates were slightly elevated. I will test the water again tonight and see what the results are.

I am absolutely sure the sandbed was disturbed when I moved the tank, I left a few inches of water in the tank and moved it like that, but the upper layer of sand got pretty stirred up. The under layers didn't move much, just the surface sand. I also forgot to mention, I moved all the water with the tank and started doing small water changes about a week after I moved the tank. I have progressed to 30% water changes in an effort to "fix" it. ::)

I don't have a fuge, maybe that is something to look at after I add the sump?

I just removed all the power heads, including the one that drives the skimmer a little over a week ago and cleaned them really well inside and out. They were filthy. In the last week or so all the filthy hair algae and red slime is back growing on the powerheads and the mj for the bak-pak.

The lighting is a 150 mh (Phoenix 14K - which I started using about 9 months ago) supplemented by 2 pc actinics (also about 9 months old, these could use replacing, but they don't really do much for the lighting anyway).

I would have no idea how to add a float switch to the sump. In addition, I have a bunch of really dumb sump questions, for example: "How do I know that the amount of water draining down from the tank to the sump is being replenished at the same rate from the sump to the tank. This factors into my fear of overflow. I am also concerned about power failure. I live in the sticks and we have very short (less than 5 minute) power failures a couple times a month. I am concerned about things restarting. I have absolutely NO tank plumbing experience. I had freshwater tanks my entire life before this, and although the planted tanks were pretty complex in terms of maintaining a fine balance, it doesn't really prepare you for the plumbing aspect of reef/saltwater tanks. :-[

Thanks again for the encouragement and suggestions,
Tina
 
Hang in there Tina and don't beat on Tammy too much!

A 10 gallon weekly change will get you back on track over time. Make sure you mix and aerate the water a day before and match SG and temp fairly close when you are doing large changes.

You might want to play with the maxijet positioning to stir up the slime a bit without creating a sandstorm. Cyano doesn't like high flow.

Don't stop feeding, the critters have to eat and you want to find the balance that allows that.

I like emerald crabs for hair algae. 2 or 3 would work in that size tank. Get the smaller ones.

Don't feel bad about the sump jitters. I just got my first ever overflow box and I can't figure out how to start the siphon in the U tube.

As far as float switches go, Phyl will post her favorite solution shortly, I'm sure. They are pretty simple to setup
 

Subliminal

NJRC Member
From what I understand (and again...no expert) after about 9 months on metal halide and 6 months on PC, the frequency can shift due to age and the spectrum it puts out is more apt to grow algae than corals.

Or something like that. ;)
 
I experienced similar results when I switched from my 90 to my 92, I used the sand from the 90 and I believe it brought up both my nitrates and phosphates. The end result was a large algae bloom :mad: fortunately I didn't have a coral die off. After months(3-4) of weekly water changes, pruning macro in the refugium, smaller feedings, and recharging my clean-up crew it finally went away.
 

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Subliminal said:
From what I understand (and again...no expert) after about 9 months on metal halide and 6 months on PC, the frequency can shift due to age and the spectrum it puts out is more apt to grow algae than corals.

Or something like that. ;)

We experienced something JUST like that. Especially with regard to the PC bulbs.
 
Bill to start the siphon stick air line tubing up into the U tube and suck out the air. That's it.

Tina: the water going into the sump will always match the amount be being pumped from the sump since it works via gravity. The key to avoiding floods is to make sure you have a big enough sump to handle the water during a power failure. The simplest way is get the biggest tank you can fit in your stand then fill it to within 1" of the top with water. Then turn on the pump, the water in the sump will drop to a certain point then the water from the display will start returning. Mark the water with a piece of tape of majic marker as "max water level". When adding makeup water never exceed that line and you will never have a flood.
 
Tonight's Test Results:

I am pleasantly surprised, they don't look bad! I didn't test the calcium because it didn't occur to me to test that until after I had dosed my B-ionic for the evening. I will test that tomorrow when I get home from work. Here are the other test results:

Temp: 79.5
Salinity (by refractometer): 1.026
pH: 8.3
Alkalinity: 2.0 meq/l (this is the low end of normal)
NO2: 0 ppm
NO3: 0 ppm
NH3/4: 0-0.25 ppm (this one was right in the middle of the two readings)

As I said before, I don't generally consider phosphate test kits reliable, but if someone is really interested, I can test for that too. I will post the calcium results tomorrow. The only thing I was a little disappointed with was the alkalinity. Typically alk runs from the high end of normal to the low end of the high range for me. Maybe this is lower due to switching salt?

Does anyone think it would help for me to run some chemi-pure or carbon for a while? I can hook a power filter with bags in it to the front of the tank, it won't be pretty, but neither is the tank right now and it is temporary.

I will order a new Phoenix 14K mh bulb tomorrow from Hellolights (unless someone has a better vendor to recommend). I have always had good experiences with hellolights. Replacing the little 18 W pc bulbs is a bit more problematic. I can find lots of actinic 18 W pc bulbs in square pin arrangements, but my bulbs need to be straight pin. I wonder if I can retrofit larger pc bulbs in there, I am going to have to measure. I know the pc ballast can handle larger bulbs. Would it be wise to turn off the pc bulbs for the time being? They don't really add much to the light output anyway, and they are on a separate switch.

I was going to make a trip to either THR or TFP this weekend, but seeing as how I had to spend nearly $200 on my dog at the vet tonight, I am going to have to wait. I really want another 6 line wrasse, but I am having trouble getting one (seems the local lfs can't seem to order one, they are always out of stock).

Thanks again for all the help! Maybe I will get brave this weekend and try hooking up the sump, but it is doubtful. :-\

Tina
 
Jcurry@wesketch said:
Bill to start the siphon stick air line tubing up into the U tube and suck out the air. That's it.

I feel like I'm in a Staples commercial, "That was easy!" ;D

Thanks!
 

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Definitely turn off that PC bulb for now. Be brave. It isn't as scary as it sounds!
 
OK. I ordered a new Phoenix 14 K mh bulb. The pc's are off for now. I also added a HOB power filter with a bag of chemi-pure in it (no filter pad, just the chemi-pure), this is temporary as it is hanging on the front of the tank. I tried to adjust my power heads to direct flow onto the areas where the red slime is growing, but I ran into a problem. They are maxi-jet power heads, but the flow directors (flat piece that you can adjust up or down and turn side to side) are very loose, they just kind of hang there. When the mj's were new, they were adjustable. Is this a part that is purchasable from anywhere? I looked around online, but I couldn't find anything. I hate to replace the powerheads, they work fine, I just need new flow directors.

Thanks,
Tina
 
skimmed the tread so hopefully I'm not repeating anything... when my PC bulbs were 6 months I started running into all sorts of algae problems (and at the time didn't even think of the bulb age DOH) once I changed them it really helped, as did upping my cleaning crew. Drsfostersmith.com offers a huge variety of pc bulbs in square and straight as does bigalsonline.com so check with both of them (can also pick up some salt if you go with dfs since they don't charge a shipping surcharge ;) )

Look into the $10 rotating attachments from hydor for your maxijets (or a couple of them) they are awesome at creating varied flow/waves on a budget and w/o adding any more watts to your system.

Best of luck, up those water changes and get new bulbs and I bet everything will vastly improve!
 
Candi said:
Drsfostersmith.com offers a huge variety of pc bulbs in square and straight as does bigalsonline.com so check with both of them (can also pick up some salt if you go with dfs since they don't charge a shipping surcharge ;) )

Look into the $10 rotating attachments from hydor for your maxijets (or a couple of them) they are awesome at creating varied flow/waves on a budget and w/o adding any more watts to your system.

Best of luck, up those water changes and get new bulbs and I bet everything will vastly improve!

Hi Candi.  Thanks for the advice.  I looked at both DFS and Big Als and neither carries the bulb I need.  I have found 18W straight pin pc bulbs in a few places online, but they are 50/50 and I need actinics (the little 18W bulbs are only to brighten up the color of the tank, main light is from the 150W mh).  I will look into the hydor flo attachments.  DFS doesn't carry them, but Big Als has them for 11.99.  I will continue my hunt for the pc bulbs.  I shut them off for now, in actuality, I didn't even notice a difference in the color of the tank or the amount of light when I shut them off.  I have a workhorse 3 ballast, so if a bigger bulb will fit, that might be the way to go.  I need to measure it first.

A quick aside about pc actinic bulbs.  I see two types, the 420 nm (Actinic 03) and a 460 nm version.  What is the difference?  The last 18W pc bulbs I got were very very dark blue and they don't even seem to put out enough light to add color to the tank at all.

Thanks again,
Tina
 

Brian

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Talonstorm said:
I see two types, the 420 nm (Actinic 03) and a 460 nm version. What is the difference? The last 18W pc bulbs I got were very very dark blue and they don't even seem to put out enough light to add color to the tank at all.
Thanks again,
Tina

The 420nm Actinic is really a true actinic, not much in the visual range, but will make the coral fluoresce nicely. The 460nm is a more visual blue light. The latter is probably more what you are looking for.

You can also check out Hello Lights, they usually have a nice selection of bulbs at a decent price.
 
Thanks for the explanation Brian! I checked hellolights, but no straight pin 18 W actinic bulbs. Maybe I can find some kind of converter to change the straight pin sockets to square pin sockets. ???

Tina
 

Brian

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
I thought about doing the same thing to an older light fixture that I had. I'm pretty sure they are going to do away with the straight pin configurations eventually. I don't see a problem with buying new end caps and switching them over. The wiring is usually pretty simple.
 
Re: My 30 gallon cube tank

I thought I would take a moment and update the situation with my 30 cube. I did finally beat the slime algae, but it took treating with Boyd's Chemiclean. I know that most people are averse to treating, instead recommending to eliminate the cause, but the water parameters looked good and the stuff just hung on. In any case, it has not returned since this treatment, Unfortunately, the hair algae growth exploded immediately following the elimination of the red slime. I'm not sure if the red slime was keeping it in check or what. The confusing part is that all my water parameters looked good, even the phosphates were low (although admittedly not zero). I kept doing my water changes hoping things would stabilize, but they didn't. So, 4 days ago I finally got rid of the CPR bak-pak and added a sump.

I am very nervous about the whole sump concept, my tank is not drilled, so I am using an overflow setup with a aqua-lifter pump. Within an hour, my tank started to slightly run over, turns out that the overflow sponge got clogged with hair-algae. I removed the sponge, and watched it for a few hours, everything seemed fine. So, I made a quick trip to the grocery store. I returned home to the tank running over again. Now the screen in the front of the overflow was clogged with hair algae. I removed the screen, cleaned it well, and replaced it. The hair algae was a major issue. It was clogging up all my power heads within a day of cleaning them, which was reducing the flow drastically. The screen on the front of the overflow keeps clogging, so I have removed it for now. I am seeing many positives in the few days since adding the sump. The new skimmer in the sump does a much better job. The water is crystal clear again and just shimmers, I didn't realize how much of that I had lost due to surface scum. The hair algae already seems to be receding, at the least, it isn't clogging up the powerheads or overflow at all now. The flow from the return pump in the sump has added a lot to the tank and the powerheads working at full power again has helped, I can actually tell the water is circulating again! I am really pleased with the progress so far, I hope this is the turning point that brings the tank back to what it was prior to moving in January.

Now for my questions:

I have done several simulated power outages to be sure the system will restart and the tank/sump won't overflow. It seems that the key is having the aqualifter pump operating properly. Without it one of two things happen: The water syphons out of the tank and fills the sump with the power is off, or, the overflow doesn't restart and the pump in the sump overflows the tank when the power kicks back on. As long as the aqualifter pump is working and the outline on it is submerged, the setup works fine. Does anyone have any other advice on trouble shooting this setup? I am very uneasy with the overflow/sump setup. I just completely renovated this house and I do not want a mess on my hands.

My next question involves a problem I had with the tank a week before I added the sump. I had my heater die on me. I came home from work to find everything in the tank looking really crappy (except my rbta, which seemed to enjoy the chilly temp). The tank was at 70.2 degrees F. I immediately pulled out the heater and replaced it with the spare heater I use in my saltwater mixing barrel. I went to the gym for an hour and returned home to find the tank at 89.0 degrees F. Thats right, this heater was also not working properly and had way over heated the water. Now everything in the tank, including the rbta looked like crap. I removed that heater and smashed it into the trash can (I was having a bit of a tantrum at the time). I dug through the boxes in the basement and found the titanium heater from my planted tank that I had broken down with I moved and put that into use. The temp came down gradually and I have been running the tank at about 77 degrees F since then. Fortunately, the only coral I lost was an ORA birdsnest I got at the frag swap. Unfortunately, my RBTA has still not recovered, he moved to the rear of the tank and is staying mostly down in the rocks. Anyone have any advice on this? Should I try to feed him? I am pretty sure I can reach his location with a pair of long forceps and feed him some silversides. The other thing that has not recovered are my zoas. The HUGE colony of radioactive greens that I had has been in slow decline over the past 4-5 months and this incident finished off all but 4 of them, and those don't look well. The other zoa colonies (eagle eyes, orange ones, brown with orange centers, etc.) are open, but not expanded (tight skirts) and seem to be stretching their stems (I know this probably isn't the proper word for this). I had zoas that used to be almost dime sized and flat to the rock and now they are pencil eraser sized and standing about 1-1.5 inches from the rock. Any ideas on that?

And for completeness, here are my current water parameters:
pH - 8.3
alk - 1.6 meq/l (I know this is low, I have been struggling with low alk since I moved, could this be due to the salt I use? I never had a problem while using the IO, but after I got redslime, read something about IO users having more cyano problems, so I switched to reef crystals)
NO2 - 0
NO3 - 0
NH3/4 - 0.25 (on a side note, I can test plain RO/DI and freshly mixed saltwater and get 0.25 on this, I think the test for this isn't terribly accurate, I tried a new test kit as well and got the same result)
Phos - 0.3 mg/l
Ca - 440
temp - 77-79 degrees F
salinity - 1.025

Thanks,
Tina

PS - I am going to create another post regarding a fish question.
 
Here is a poor quality picture of what the zoas look like:

sickzoas123107.jpg


Please ignore the hair algae, lol.

Thanks again,
Tina
 
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