Negative Long term effects of Kalk

[chrowski]

Hey all,
I was at my LFS the other day and a knowledgeable salesman, the guy who owns the store, told me that people who run SPS tanks for a long time with dripping Kalk as a buffer in the tank will eventually undergo a tank crash. IDK if he was trying to get me to spring for a Ca.reactor or if he was just being helpful. Anyone have any insight as this is making me skeptical b/c I'm underway setting up my first SPS tank.
Thanks in advance.
--tom

 

[IrradiatedReef]

I have seen people crash their tank 2 ways. One is from letting the magnesium go astray and the calcium precipitated out of the water <rare>. The other is they didnt pay attention to the Alkalinity <more common>. If you are worried about Kalk crashing, don't use it. Use the 2 part Bionic.

 

[Daniel]

I do not use any of them and my calcium is over 600 for the last 8 years I have no Idea why.

 

[IrradiatedReef]

Have your magnesium checked. Usually really high or really low calcium <and cannot get any higher> is related to a magnesium level that is askew.

 

[Daniel]

I will look into it thank you for the advice ;D

 

[RichT]

Kalk has a tendency to gum up your parts. And gummy parts can lead to a crash......and a flood.

 

[chrowski]

Hey all, I also posted this in RC under NJRC. Anyways does anyone have any suggestions as to which is most beneficial/stable to maintain Ca levels: Kalk dripping or 2 part Bionic additives? thanks

 

[Brian]

I would suggest a Calcium Reactor if you can get one. I got mine through a local reefer for pretty cheap. It's definitely the easier way to go, although the most costly to start up.

 

[IrradiatedReef]

I prefer the 2 part Bionic and is what I recommend to my customers who do not have/want a reactor. Kalk has its benifits but IMO if you go kalk, might as well save up for a reactor. More money on the front end, a lot less headache all around, does the same thing.

 

[Carlo]

They all have advantages and disadvantages even taking price out of the mix. A reactor can lower the overall PH of the tank while dripping Kalk/Limewater can raise the PH to much.

If you are dripping Kalk you can get gunk buildup but if you do it right you shouldn't have a problem. If you mix up the Kalk in an external container and then only use the clear water after it settles for dripping the settled Kalk won't have a chance to make it to the tank since it never makes it to the "drip tank". If you use a Kalk reactor you can set it up to mix once a day about 12 hours before you drip at night. By the time the reactor kicks in to "drip" the solution has way more then settled by then.

Personal opinion only here but the choice between dripping Kalk and running a calcium reactor should be based on the PH of the tank. If you run on the lower side then drip Kalk to keep it higher while if your PH is on the higher side then run a calcium reactor.

On my tanks I've always had low PH so I haven't been able to run a calcium reactor at any type of optimal settings. I found the easiest solution for MY TANKS was to drip Kalk to help with the PH and then use a product like Turbo Calcium (any calcium additive could work) to dose additional calcium if needed which was only needed on occasion. It's imperative to watch your ALK, PH and Calcium levels (with test kits) when using any reactor or additives as all three will probably be effected by any of the items mentioned.

Carlo

 

[chriscolt]

IMO and practical experience - if you use a calcium reactor properly (with CO2 and it is all set correctly - slow drip into tank maybe one drop every 2 seconds and the PH of the effluent is correct which is around 6, and the bubble counter is correct - drives PH of effluent - which is in most systems - 1 bubble per 8 to 10 seconds - of course I would start with manufacturers directions and if PH is too low - effluent, not the tank - then you can increase output of water or lower CO2 bubble count) then even if set properly, your tank PH will most likely get lower - 7.8/8.1 night/day - most people then buy a Kalk reactor or drip Kalk not so much for Calcium, but to maintain PH and replace evaporated water. RO/DI water BTW typically had a funky PH - I found it low or high but never 7.0 what it should be technically. So I add an RO correct type of product to the RO/DI water before I does it through the Kalk reactor and I use the Neptune controller to decide whether to replace evaporated water (using a float switch in the sump) with Kalkwasser (through the reactor) or directly from the RO/DI storage container (currently a 6 gallon plastic container that is filled automatically using the spectrapure LLC solenoid on the output of my RO/DI - moving up to a 40 gallon? brute trash can for RO/DI storage). Point is using Kalk in combination with a Calcium reactor (with CO2) is the BEST way to replace calcium and makeup water for evaporation - it takes care of 3 problems - 1) Calcium maintenance and MG maintenance - MG depends on which media you use in Cal reactor - 2) PH using the 2 reactors - CAL lowers PH, KALK raises PH 3) Water evaporation replacement

I find the more dangerous reactor in terms of "gunk" and equipment destroying particulate production is the PHOSPHATE reactors - the Iron based media used in these reactors creates a brown / rust colored particulate that gets rock hard in the aquarium, combines with the substrate and literally forms rocks, this material also gets into the pumps and cakes on the rotating magnets in submersible pumps and causes failure, especially after trying to restart after a power failure. This residue combines with the substrate so it is almost impossible to remove with removing the top layers of the sand bed (in the sump or refugium - where ever you point the output if the reactor)


thanks Chris

 

[Phyl]

Chris, what media are you suggesting helps to replace Mg?

 

[chriscolt]

From what I remember - most of the natural media like ARM and 'Gen-X Calcium reactor media and the newer brands like Tropic Eden = mixed with the straight Calcium only products like KNOP Korilith give you the best results. Typically, media that is made from Coral Skeletons, have higher Strontium, MG and trace elements than the manufactured brands that are made from a dolomite blend. Even using a percentage of crushed coral helps with the trace elements - so I blend several types of media together, run a double chamber - and I never have to add MG or Strontium supplements even though I have 30 or so hard corals growing in the tank (LPS, SPS, etc..). Calcium is 500 or higher, MG is 1500 or higher, Alk 10dkh/3.6 meq/l. The only thing I add is iodine - one a week - Lugols week 1, Concentrated iodine blend week 2, and Purple Up week 3 - I know purple up does contain some trace and Calcium but I only add it every 3 weeks mostly because it contains Iodine - The LPS, soft corals, shrimp, crabs, snails love iodine - just make sure you add it according to manufacturers instructions and you are running a better than just good skimmer (skimmers constantly remove iodine) - Iodine OD can kill so careful is the key - I find the test kits are difficult to use and provide mixed results.

 

[Phyl]

So which media/which salt do you use?

 

[chriscolt]

ARM plus Koralith plus CaribSea Crushed coral - 40%, 40%, 20%

Salt - AquaCraft, Marine Environment 2 part salt and recently I have been using a salt "micro-brew" which so far has shown positive results:

Saltwater Correct Products by:

Get Tanked Aquariums

Your Saltwater Aquarium Store

1-A N. Letort Drive

Carlisle, Pa 17013

717-243-9545

Toll Free Phone # 1-866-243-9545

www.gettankedaquariums.com

 

[Phyl]

Interesting. Thanks so much for your input! I appreciate you taking the time.

 

[blange3]

I'm caught in a loop on this topic and can use some suggestions.

Since my main tanks are in the basement I tend to have low pH due to CO2 buildup. Usually between 8.0 and 8.15. I had been dripping kalk, but switched to Randy's 2 part to keep up with increased calcium demands due to the addition of a clam and some SPS to my LPS tank.

2 part was working fine, but I needed to add 200ml of each everyday. In an attempt to reduce the 2-part workload, I adjusted my topoff system to run more frequently, adding less water at a time, and went back to dosing kalk with the intention of adjusting with 2-part and maintaining levels with the kalk. That seemed to be working, I reduced the amount of 2-part and looked like I could skip some days without a big drop. That was my goal as I have to travel for work on and off for the next few months.

So here is the dilemma. All of a sudden the pH has dropped to 7.79 - 7.97 and the Alk is 2.2 - 2.4 meq. I tried increasing the 2-part and started to get precipitation. I tried only using the part B for alk, as the calcium was 410 already, thinking I'd get less precipitation. I started to get significant deposits on the pumps, and even though the alk was low, I would get a snowstorm with even a little of the alk supplement.

I did a water change and I've stopped using the supplements, but kept the kalk drip. I'm going to watch this for a few days and see if I get deposits with only Kalk. If I do, I guess the alternative is to return to 2-part and teach my wife another reef task to make her worry while I travel!

Salt is Tropic Marin. SG is 1.025, CA is 410, Alk 2.4, MG 1350-1400, temp is 77.0 -77.2. It will be difficult to pump in outside air, but I might have to go that route. Corals are growing and seem happy, although I do notice some closing when I dose the alk supplement. That might be coincidental as I usually do that near lights out.

Did I mention that only other people's reefs are relaxing?

 

[IrradiatedReef]

I just recovered for a high ALK issue. It was caused by using Reefchem 8.3 Ph buffer in the purple jar. Maybe a small amount of this will beef up your ALK a bit?

Just a though, dont know if this will help or hurt.