Ozone & Water Clarity

[120gallons]

I recently added ozone to my setup.
My question is do folks think it is possible for ozone to increase the clarity of the water such and extent to increase lighting effects where a coral might now be getting too much lighting? All my corals look better with ozone that without except one. I think it is possibly due ot the fact it was borderline where it was placed before and now it has too much light. Any thoughts?

 

[Carlo]

Absolutely can happen.

You want to raise the ORP value slowly. For example say it was 280 when you start. Bump it up by 10 every couple of days. Ozone from the standpoint of clarity is much worse then adding 5lbs of carbon to the system.

If all your corals are looking good move the one coral down in the tank so it gets less light for a while and then slowly move it back up.

Carlo

 

[AnDom1]

120 and Carlo

Was considering using ozone to help clarify my water (135 gals) which has a slight green cast to it resulting from my overfeeding Phytoplankton for a while. I added a couple of bags of Chemipure, did 10% water changes weekly for the past several weeks,
and reduced the amount and frequency of phyto fed dramatically to like 0.5ml 3 times a week (tank is well stocked with SPS,LPS and Softies). Thus the reduction of from a strong green tint to the present slight grren tint.

The corals look good, but I think they (SPS's) can look better colorwise if the water was clearer.

Carlo's post makes this look like a promising way to go as I do not think adding more carbon will help.

Any thoughts??

Dom

 

[Phyl]

I think skimming would be your best bet for quick change.

 

[AnDom1]

Phyl

Skimmer has been on all along and working well, extracting a lot of gunk though it is more on the dark tea side rather than the greenish stuff I was expecting given the excess phyto in the water.

Dom

 

[Carlo]

AnDom1, I'd go easy at this point clearing the water. If you go to fast you might shock some of the more sensitive corals in your tank as they seem to adjust to dimmer amounts of light quicker then brighter light.

If you are still dosing phyto completely stop. No point at all in adding it since you obviously have plenty. As long as your skimmer pulls green stuff from the tank you have plenty of phyto in there. Don't add more until you don't skim anything green. Before you add the phyto back, make sure you even need it.

Crank up your skimmer to skim as wet as you can for at least as long as it takes to clear the water up again. You could also run a very small amount of carbon passively (in a bag thrown in sump) to slowly clear the water. Just don't over due it and try and clear the water to fast.

Once you get it relatively clear again then think about ozone for the future.

Have you checked your nitrates and phosphates lately? Bet they are sky high or will be shortly as the phyto breaks down. Your SPS isn't going to like this much at all.

Check both nitrates and phosphates and let us know what they are. Do you know what these were previously?

Carlo

 

[AnDom1]

Excellent advice Carlo..Given the thick tea colored skimmate, your suggestion that I test for nitrates and phosphates is right on the money...I haven't tested anything except for salinity (for water change purposes) in a long time as the animals "looked healthy" despite the slight green cast to the water. Past levels taken so long ago they are irrelevant now, but will take new ones for all parameters later today and agree with you that the NO3 and PO4 levels are probably high. Also, it is likely the weekly water changes masked this buildup by minimizing the impact on the corals to my naked eye.

Also your suggestion to stop phyto feedings to help the process is so obvious, I can't believe I didn't get it DUH

Am curious about "wet" skimming as I've always fought hard to ensure dry foam and never had a problem.

Thanks,

Dom

 

[Carlo]

The wet skimming will remove the plankton and DOCs a little faster. It won't be to fast but will help clear things up. If you can't or don't want to skim a little wetter just let it run it's course skimming dry.

Carlo

 

[gettankedaquariums]

120 and Carlo

Was considering using ozone to help clarify my water (135 gals) which has a slight green cast to it resulting from my overfeeding Phytoplankton for a while. I added a couple of bags of Chemipure, did 10% water changes weekly for the past several weeks,
and reduced the amount and frequency of phyto fed dramatically to like 0.5ml 3 times a week (tank is well stocked with SPS,LPS and Softies). Thus the reduction of from a strong green tint to the present slight grren tint.

The corals look good, but I think they (SPS's) can look better colorwise if the water was clearer.

Carlo's post makes this look like a promising way to go as I do not think adding more carbon will help.

Any thoughts??

Dom

Dom,

I’m going to speculate that when you say that you added a couple of bags of ChemiPure carbon, that you used the passive mode by placing the carbon bags some where in a high flow rate in your sump.
If so, a lot of hobbyists don’t realize water will always take the path of least resistance, meaning that most of the water will go around the carbon bag and a little will go through the carbon bag via through the voids of the carbon pile and even a lesser amount of water will go through the carbon particles.

The passive mode is ok if you have no other recourse i.e. no sump, small sump with no room, and so on.
Every couple of days mix carbon around inside the bag and rinse

The best way to utilize 100% of any carbon is to mechanically push the water through a media reactor and at a flow rate that’s not too slow or too fast. The more contact time that the carbon and water have, the more beneficial effects you will have on cleaning the water column and you are utilizing almost all the carbon. It’s all about the contact duration time between the water and carbon, the longer the better.

A lot of hobbyists are skeptical about the use of carbon because of the myth’s and propaganda on the subject.

I have done a lot of carbon testing on 14 independent saltwater reef and fish system totaling 3,000 gallons that I have and maintained over the last 7 years and been in the hobby for 20 plus years.

I like to tell you that I went as long as 3 months without using any carbon on 3,000 gallons of saltwater systems and the water in the systems was either greenish or brownish and the room had a tank smell that smelled fishy. I went back to using carbon that night and by the next day the tanks were crystal clear and the room did not have the fishy smell aroma and with no ill affects to the systems.

Remember that we are maintaining an enclosed eco system that produces a vast amount of organic and inorganic / bio waste that needs to be exported out one way or another.

Some hobbyists may disagree or agree, if you do not use carbon give it a try for your self for at least a few months and then form your own opinion, just like this is my opinion on how too use carbon.

Good Luck!
Gettankedaquariums / Garry

 

[Phyl]

Garry, I've heard lots of schools of thought for how long to run carbon before changing, how many days/weeks of the month it should be run, etc. Just curious how you run it in your system.

 

[AnDom1]

Garry,

I am also a proponent of carbon usage and yes, I did place the Chemi Pure bags in my sump because at present "there ain't no place else to put it". I used to keep it in an old Eheim canister filter (and sometimes a hang-on filter) so I could access/change it easily and fairly frequently.

Your suggestion re "mixing it around inside the bag" is and excellent one that is so obvious that I never thought of it

I am thinking about redesigning my system to be more efficient and flexible. Right now I'm using a 20+ yr old wet-dry filter (without bioballs), a protein skimmer some water changes and the occasional addition of kalkwasser and/or buffers as needed.

Thanks

Dom

 

[gettankedaquariums]

Garry, I've heard lots of schools of thought for how long to run carbon before changing, how many days/weeks of the month it should be run, etc. Just curious how you run it in your system.

Here is the rule of thumb and theory that I use and believe:
The maximum time that I use a fresh batch of carbon is only 3- 4 weeks, reason being (imo) is that in the carbon chamber you will colonize good and bad bacteria, any bacteria can colonize very rapidly, we do not want to colonize any negative bacteria if we can prevent it, also what ever accumulates in the reactor chamber can leach back into your water column at a higher rater.
When using an adequate amount of a new batch of carbon, you will notice that you will not have to clean the inside of your aquarium glass as often and your aquarium water is crystal clear.
When you notice that you are more frequently cleaning the inside glass of your aquarium or your water column starts to get a tinge of color in a 3 to 4 week period, that means that your carbon is getting exhausted and time to replace and also the water flow will diminish in that time period as well.
If you notice that your carbon is exhausted and do not have time to replace it, remove the carbon out of your aquarium system until you have the time to replace the carbon.

I hope this helps you to make a better judgment call.
gettankedaquariums / Garry.

 

[mladencovic]

...
Am curious about "wet" skimming as I've always fought hard to ensure dry foam and never had a problem.
...

I will try to simplify it this way: Different molecules in water and different concentrations of such molecules will create bubbles whose membranes are of different strengths. At the same time the water molecules would try to either evaporate or "drain" down. Thus, bubbles with molecules creating stronger surface tension or with stronger concentration of those molecules will be able to survive longer. As the bubbles burst in the foam column, some of the water and impurity molecules will go back into the water, but some of them will be attracted to the surface of the neighbouring bubbles, with the impurities having the greater propensity of attaching to the surface of bubbles, thus increasing the concentration of the impurities in the new bubble. So, by skimming wet, you are shortening the time that the bubble needs to survive in order to be "collected" in the collection cup. That way you allow the bubbles with the lower concentration of impurities to be collected (more water molecules thus lighter color of skimmate - "wet") as well as impurities that create the weaker surface tension. While the concentration of the impurities is lower, you are skimming much more bubbles, thus the overall quantity of the impurities removed is greater and therefore this skimming is much more aggressive - larger quantity and variety of impurities removed. The undesired effect is that you are removing larger quantities of water as well, and a salt water at that, which will (in the long run) affect the balance of your salinity which you maintain with the fresh water top-off. Also, the collection cup has to be emptied more often (I have to empty mine once or twice a day).

 

[Carlo]

I dug the first two paragraphs out of my archive material. Don't remember where it came from but it was from somebody important.

Activated carbon should be a little larger then a pin-head in size. When washed and dry, it should be dull and not shiny. It should also tend to float when first added to water. Good activated carbon should feel hard and not crumble, but will fracture under t finger pressure.

The best carbons are usually produced from bituminous coal and have a high porosity and low density. Look for a high total surface area combined with a high pore volume or high molasses number (500-700), indicating a porosity suitable for water filtration. It should also have low ash content.

pg 300 The Reef Aquarium - Science, Art, and Technology
"Thiel (1988) recommends using 36 ounces (1020 g) of GAC per 50 gallons (189 L), while Wilkens and Birkholz (1986) recommend 500 grams (17.6 ounces) per 100 liters (26.4 gallons), which is roughly equivalent. This recommendation is excessive3! (see Harker, 1998b). Thiel later revised his recommendation to 4 tablespoons per gallon, while Spotte (1992) recommends even less, 1 gram per liter (Harker, 1998b). Since it is unclear what type of carbon these recommendations are referring to, they are at best estimates. The true test of carbon usage is how effective it is at preventing the accumulation of colouring compounds as well as DON in the water. Harker (1998b) demonstrated that from a standpoint of efficiency, it is prudent to use the least amount of carbon required."

pg 301
"The biggest concern about replacing activated carbon in a reef tank is that clearing of the water and possible light shock to the coral as we have already mentioned. Wilkens and Birkholz (1986) recommend that if GAC is to be added to an established aquarium, it should be done gradually, say 20 grams (0.7 ounces) per 100 litres (26.4 gallons) monthly, until their recommendation of 500 grams (17.6 ounces) per 100 liters (26.4 gallons) is attained."

From Carlo:
The problem I generally see is that the best carbons are made from bituminous coal. Bituminous coal as well as wood based carbons typically leach the most amount of phosphates and silicates.

Richard Harker did a set of tests on different carbons and TLF Hydrocarbon came in first. There's a copy of the article here - Worth reading.
http://www.pets-warehouse.com/carbon.htm

Chemi-Pure wasn't tested in that study or it would have cleaned up IMHO. There simply is no better carbon available for aquariums then Chemi-Pure bar none.

Carlo

 

[Phyl]

Well there's some great fodder for conversation on the 27th (Richard Harker is one of our speakers for the swap). I'll definitely take a read through the article.

 

[Boomer]

Carlo

The best carbons are usually produced from bituminous coal and have a high porosity and low density. Look for a high total surface area combined with a high pore volume or high molasses number (500-700), indicating a porosity suitable for water filtration. It should also have low ash content.


Actually it is Lignite and Peat GAC here that are the best. Bitum can not have those Molasses #'s and rarely can Lignite or Peat, it is usually Wood. M # are usually in the 200-500 range. Bitum usually in the low 200's at max, Lig and Peat in the 400's for good grade.

It looks like you have crossed over that 500-700 for Iodine # for Lignite /Peat. Lingite and Peat also have the lowest PO4 but more Ash. The Ash can be greatly reduced if the GAC is Acid washed and acid washing has nothing to do with phosphoric acid.

 

[Carlo]

Seachem's carbon had a high molasses number in the high 500s and it's bituminous coal. Chemi-pure also has a very high molasses number but I don't remember what it is anymore.

I agree on the acid washing but then that brings other problems.

Carlo

 

[Boomer]

I have never seen one from Boyd and have never bought the claim by SeaChem and they do not claim over 500 but over 600 !! And I believe long ago they made a mistake, may be converting the Molasses decolorizing efficiency value. Try to find a Bituum anywhere with a M # that high. They actually say on one of my old SeaGrams "look for 600-700", now try and find such a GAC with that number, let alone in Bitum. It is not that there are none out there, there are some very special grades that actually go to 1,000.

 

[Carlo]

I think part of the problem in saying what's the best type of carbon is first to determine what you want to remove from the water.

Without saying what you want the carbon to do is like comparing apples to oranges.

If you want to remove tannic acids then I'd agree lignite is best and you can see this in Harper's article (link above) but if you want to remove DOCs then bituminous has been shown to be superior. Both types of carbon will still remove tannic acids and DOCs but they each excel at one better then other.

I guess you could mix two different types and call it a day.

Carlo

 

[Phyl]

How can I tell which carbon we have (bought in bulk from the manufacturer)?