Questions on Feeding and Nutrition

[Carlo]

How much food and nutrients?

I originally posted this on reefcentral but didn't get any responses except that the bio load is heavy. I'm quite aware of this fact and I'm also quite aware of what excess food does to your nitrates and phosphates, etc... So I don't want this to become a "chemistry" lesson. I'm only interested in what others would consider "proper" feeding.

I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this and really has a good handle on feeding. We always hear not to feed to much but I'm worried I might not be feeding enough for the long term success of the tanks.

Brief Equipment Overview:
I'm presently running 2 foam fractioners (protein skimmers), 36 watt UV and 200mg of near constant Ozone with an average daily ORP of 375. My PH runs in the range of 7.9 to 8.1. I fully test: Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrates, Phosporus, Calcium, Magnesium, Iron, Strontium, Iodine, Silica & Boron as well as have test kits for residual ozone, oxygen and a couple of others. I have and use all the Pinpoint digital monitors. The only ongoing "battle" is NITRATES but I've gotten them down to a steady 10ppm (and dropping).

I have 6 reactors running plus use a fluval 405 with my own media in it. I'm running carbon, phosphate sponges, chemi-pure, purigen, poly pads, algone, nitrate sponges. Much of this has been to battle Phosphates and Nitrates but I've got the phosphates at zero and staying there as well as have the Nitrates on the downswing thanks to 2 nitrate reactors (one suphur one not) and a second refugium and 10 more clams. Once the nitrates get close to zero I'll start to wean the tank off all chemical reactors leaving only carbon (for ozone use) and purigen for general use (nice cause it can be restored).

The only reason I went into detail about the above is because it does have an effect on some of the tank's nutrition and does strip some stuff from the water column.

Here is a brief list of live stock.
Fish:
Green Manderin
Spotted Manderin
Scooter Red Blenny
Purple Firefish
Foxface Lo (Foxface Rabbitfish)
Copperband Butterflyfish
2 Hawain Yellow Tangs
Purple Tang
Pacific Blue Tang (Hippo or Regal)
Kole Tang
Hawian Flame Angelfish
Coral Beauty Angelfish
2 Ocellaris Clownfish
2 Clarkii Clowns
Yellow Anthias
Orange Anthias
4 Blue/Green Reef Chromis
3 Spotted (Pajama) Cardinalfish
2 Kaudern's (Banggai) Cardinalfish
Diamond Watchman Goby
Cleaner Wrasse
(yes I know 30 fish is a heavy bio-load)

Inverts:
Derasa Clam 5"
1 Super Colored Maxima Clam 4.5"
7 Super Colored Maxima Clams 1.5"-2"
2 Vietnam Gold Colored Maxima Clams 2"
2 Anemone
Debelius' Reef Lobster
2 Large Hermit Crabs (just moved them to the refugium as one was messing with my clams too much)
dozens of Dwarf Blue Leg Hermit Crabs
handfull of Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
dozen Dwarf Red Tip Hermit Crabs
2 Sand Sifting Sea Stars
Linckia Sea Star, Red
3 Scarlet Skunk Cleaner Shrimp
3 Blood Red Fire Shrimp
5 Peppermint Shrimp
Turbo Snails
Astraea Conehead Snails
Margarita Snails
Nassarius Snails
Banded Trochus Snails
(any more suggestions or look good?)

Corals (35+ mixed):
SPS Hard Corals
LPS Hard Corals
Mushroom Corals
Soft Corals
Polyps - Colonial Corals

First question concerns feeding. I presently feed a mixture of food. I use an automatic feeder for dry food. I have it set to feed a single portion at 12am and 6am and double portions at 12pm and 6pm. I mix different foods together and this mix entails about even parts of:
Omega One Marine Flakes
Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef Flakes
Ocean Nutrition Formula Two Marine Pellets
Red Sea MarineGro granules
Whole Freeze Dried Cyclop-eeze (powder like)
Julian Sprung's Purple Seaweed Sea Veggies (I break this up into flake size pieces)
Nori (I break this up into flake size pieces)
I should keep Nori always hanging in the tank but sometimes forget to put a new strip up so that is why I mix it into the dry food

Frozen Foods I manually add to tank:
Ocean Nutrition Invert Food (good for scallops, feather duster worms, corals, sponges, anemones and sea apples)
Krill Cubes
Spirulina Brine Shrimp
Brine Shrimp
Mysis Shrimp
Squid
Tubifex Worms

(added this from another message lower in the thread) What I'm presently doing is feeding one cube of mysis shrimp 2 times daily. I also feed one cube of either Invert Food, Krill, Spirulina Brine Shrimp, Brine Shrimp, Squid or Tubifex Worms worms with each of the mysis shrimp cubes. So the fish get a total of 4 cubes with at least 3 different things during the day. I won't feed the two brine shrimps during the same day and will probably not purchase the brine anymore and just purchase the spiruline brine instead.

OK so first question would be concerning the dry foods. I feed 4 times a day with 2 of these "double portions". Pretty much all the flake food is eaten pretty quickly except for the granules/pellets which sink as designed for the inverts and bottom feeders. Would you leave this as is or change it? Is there any other dry food type you would mix in or leave out from the mix?

The really big question. How much and how often would you feed the frozen foods based on the stocking of the tank? Oh btw, I do put a couple of drops of concentrated garlic on the frozen cubes so it absorbs a little before I feed this to the fish.

Besides the frozen cubes I also have the following refrigerated foods:
DT's Live Marine Phytoplankton
Reef Nutrition Phyto Feast
Reef Nutition Arcti Pods
Eco-Systems Zooplankton

I also use the following (All Kent Products - brief bottle directions included)
Coral Accel - 1 to 2 teaspoons per 50 gallons daily
Micro Vert - 0.5 to 1.5 teaspoons per 55 gallons up to 3 times a week
PhytoPlex - 1 to 2 teaspoons per 50 gallons up to 3 times a week.
ZooPlex - 1 to 2 teaspoons per 50 gallons. Feed several times weekly.
ChromaPlex - 1 to 2 teaspoons per 50 gallons. Feed several times weekly.
Reeding the back of the ZooPlex bottle it suggests to alternate use with PhtoPlex, ChromaPlex and Coral Accel. This would more or less be easy in that you could just use Coral Accel every other day with the alternate day using one of the other products. Hmm, how convenient for them.

I think my general plan is to not purchase the Phyto Feast, Kent Phyto & Kent Zoo anymore and just use DT's Phytoplankton from now on since it's live. Does anyone see any advantage to using both or keeping the Phyto Feast or Kent Phyto?

How much and how often would you feed the above to the tank? (Phytoplankton (with lights on), Zooplankton (with lights off), Arcti Pods)?

What do you guys think of Coral Accel, Micro Vert and ChromaPlex? Considering everything else I have and feed do you guys really think there is any benefit to using these or am I just throwing money away?

My goal is to use a couple of dose pumps to feed the liquids to the tank but it's beyond the scope of my questions at the moment. (I'm just trying to automate as much of the setup as possible so I can step away for a couple of days)

I really appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this detailed set of questions. We always hear not to feed to much but I'm worried I might not be feeding enough long term or maybe not the right types of foods.

Thanks,
Carlo

 

[JohnS_323]

Wow I got readers-cramp! J/K!

I read the whole thing and the one thing you don't really detail is how much of the frozen mix you feed. I think you're OK on the flake (although, I'm not sure who's up at 12am to eat it, but I don't have all of that livestock so some of them may be nocturnal feeders).

But back to the frozen, about how much are you adding? I make my own seafood mix and smush it into the squares of those plastic trays that frozen Formula One/Two come in. I can't pack it as dense as them, but for my much lighter stocked 120 I usually use about 4 or 5 cubes. We've been feeding flake a lot heavier lately because we've been thinking we are running a nutrient poor system.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if you get a limited response because, whoa!, that's a pretty hefty system you've got running. It's hard to give good advice based on scaled up estimates. There are some folks here that'll probably be able to help you out, though.

Good luck!

 

[Carlo]

Hehe, I got writers cramp too.

Yep your right I didn't mention it. I got so involved in the details I forgot about it. I used to feed more heavy but have lightened it on the frozen food.

What I'm presently doing is feeding one cube of mysis shrimp 2 times daily. I also feed one cube of either Ocean Nutrition Invert Food, Krill, Spirulina Brine Shrimp, Brine Shrimp, Squid or Tubifex Worms worms with each of the mysis shrimp cubes. So the fish get a total of 4 cubes with at least 3 different things during the day. I won't feed the two brine shrimps during the same day and will probably not purchase the brine anymore and just purchase the spiruline brine instead.

Besides the frozen foods I'm also feeding Phytoplankton every other day and on the off day I feed either Arcti Pods or Zooplankton. The fish go crazy for both the Arcti Pods and Zooplankton. Man they love that stuff. I also have an ever growing supply of live pods in the tanks. I turned off the small skimmer today to clean it and found a couple of dozen pods swimming around in it. I guess the pumps don't kill those little guys.

Any advice or suggestions from anyone would be appreciated even if it's a "sounds about right to me" type reply.

BTW, if you think this is bad wait till you see my next system. That will definately be pushing the envelope.

Carlo

 

[concept3]

Carlo-

I take care of my buddy's 300 gallon system too, very similar to yours.
BUT: He has no phosban reactors, fluidized bed filters, mechanical filters. No filter socks, no UV, no remote DSB. He does have a fuge area which we used because it came built in with the sump.

His biolad includes:

35-40 chromis (2")
6 anthias (2")
6 yellow tangs (4-5")
1 Powder Blue tang (6")
1 Hippo tang (6")
1 Huge Koran Angel (8")
1 emperor angelfish (4")
5 PJ Cardinalfish (2")
3 red eye squirrel fish (4")
2 wrasses (3")
5 starfish (2 choco chips in main)
3 urchins
1 Deresa 8"
1 Maxima gold 5"
1 Crocea purple 5"
3 HUGE brittle stars banished to the sump
about 150-200 various snails/detritus feeders
and I'm sure I'm forgetting quite a few things.....

Corals:
Various SPS, about 10-15 (including my former 12" diameter Orange Cap) from my tank and a barrage of 15-20 softies some up to 12" tall when extended

about 500 lbs of Liverock in the tank, none in the sump. Tank is Bare bottom so I siphon all the detritus out MONTHLY. Chaeto in the sump with 24/7 lighting, but it's not growing like crazy.



His feeding regimen is this:
2 Ice cube size frozen fish food mix (my recipe) once a day at 5pm....... no more.



He has less than 1 in nitrates because of his heavy fishload and the monthly (sometimes two) water changes. His skimmer is also a pain in the butt to dial in but he doesn't want to get a better, more efficient one. I think part of the secret to his tank's success is that the fish were "conditioned" for that one heavy daily feeding. The main return pump is shut off for almost an hour during the feeding. I'll have the fish food recipe I make pasted on here as soon as I find it. It's the same recipe that I used when I revived the brain coral.

Back to the "fish" conditioning. I do believe in feeding often and little in between. I myself feed my fish twice a day, but they are spaced only 4-5 hours apart. I feed when I get home, usually around 6-7pm , and I feed again around midnight, just after the halides turn off. This leaves the actinics on for another hour for the shy ones to eat. Pumps are all shut off including the internal ones so the fish can have every single morsel free floating. The organics I assume get utilized by the corals themselves. I only feed twice now because of the wrasses I just acquired along with the anthias. I used to feed one a day. Food portions are about 2 cubes of the frozen packs; which is about 3 "eggcrate: cubes as John mentioned.

Conditioning the fish involves slowly weaning them off to a certain feeding time so they know how much and when (I'm sure you notice them hovering near the auto feeder when its ready to dipense). I would gradually reduce the food and then change the times so they are more spread out. When fish are hungry, they will graze. That's the beauty of the Liverock in our systems. Occasionally, you may need to enhance your Pod popuation for your mandarins since everyone else will be feeding on them, but adding live pods is better than adding excess organics in the form of fsh food.

Last thing is the food. I believe in natural foods. I have always fed my fish frozen food whether or not it was store bought or home made. I believe in the premise that if it's not good enough for human consumption, its not good enough for my fish. My last food making session involved me eating half the oysters and half a dozen topneck clams on the half shell! To the mix, I add vegetable matter as well, usually in the form of a "filler" which is SPIRULINA flakes- that's right. I said "filler" but it's really not.

I will start feeding my fish the Spectrum lineup of pellets since I've heard plenty good things about them, so I'm trying that next. Also, because I want to be a little lazier-

I'll go look for that recipe now.

 

[concept3]

Here's a part cut-and-paste from a previous post





Main ingredients:

1 lemon

Dozen and a half fresh Oysters, shucked, keep cold on the half shell (set aside about 4-6)

Dozen or so Topneck clams, prpared same as above (set aside about 3-4)

8-12 cloves of Garlic

1 - 1.5 lbs of cleaned Squid tubes only, (save tentacles)

1 lb of REAL gulf shrimp with head (not the freshwater prawns) peeled and head squeezed (head juice and fat included, shell/head is discarded)




Folding ingredients (place ALL in a sieve minus the cyclopeze to DRAIN excess moisture for about an hour or two, or better still defrost overnight in the fridge in a sieve)

Big Bag of defrosted Krill from the LFS, maybe two keep cold

2-3 packs of defrosted Mysis from the LFS

2-3 defrosted Daphnia cubes frm LFS

2-3 packets of defrosted Bloodworms from LFS

Block of defrosted Cyclopeeze if the LFS has it.




Fillers:

Big container of Spirulina Flakes from LFS

Nori, chopped or ripped to manageable sizes


=================================================

Food processor the squid and Garlic until about 5/8 of an inch.
In goes the Clams next, and then the shrimp. Blend well until it gets to be manageable size for your fish, aboout 1/4 of an inch.
Oysters go in. Blend again to about 1/8 of an inch.
Add the krill and do a rough chop, just enough to cut them in half and mix.
Take the Spirulina flakes and Rough chop again you will notice that the food will slightly solidify as the spirulina will absorb excess moisture.
Take out the mush and fold in the rest of your ingredients.
Folding them in will keep them whole rather than liquifying the whole mush.

I then take this mush and press them against small sections of eggcrate or freeze them in icecube trays. Makes enough food for 3-4 months @ 1 ice cube size a day.

For me, this is enough for 6-7 months as I only feed little.

I make the large batch for my friend's tank who has a school of tangs and about 25 chromis (35-40 now actually) , 8 miscallenous fish, a large Koran and a medium size Emperor in a 375 total gallon system. They all get 1 cube a day (bumped to two since we got more chromis)


=====================================================
Now what to do with the set aside items:

Take the oysters and clams, cut the lemon in half and squeeze on the oysters and clams. Place the fresh oysters in your mouth and enjoy their freshness right out if the shell. Horseradish and Ketchup is optional.

Take the squid tentacles and deep fry them after dredging in flour. Optional squeeze of lemon on the fried squid, but just as good with marinara sauce.
=====================================================





ON A SIDE NOTE: Billy is making another version of his coral food on Saturday's meeting. I'm sure someone will post up his ingredients as they will be different than mine.

 

[blange3]

Boy, I thought I was a heavy feeder!

Carlo, I know you have a large tank, but how large is it? From Merv's comments it sounds like it's in the 300 gallon range. How much rock? Sand or no sand?

I have the same question as John, tell us more about how you feed the frozen foods.

My gut feel is 2x a day of the single seving of the dry food would be enough; assuming you feed a healthy portion of frozen foods at least every other day. I'm not familiar with all the additives you use. I find garlic and selcon to be enough for me. It also sounds like you have sufficient natural life in the rock for grazing. I would keep up with the DT's for the pods and the clams.

I see you have LPS. I try to target feed mine 1 or 2x a week, which includes plenty of leftovers to keep the fish happy.

So 2x a day for the dry food, every other day feed frozen, and one or two times a week target feed the LPS as part of the frozen feeding process. After lights out dose DT's 2x a week. Or near lights out, incorporate target feeding the clams with DT's when you target the LPS. Thats what I do with my clam and gorgonian.

I'm extrapolating from my experience with a 75, that had 8 fish, now 6 thanks to my purle tang! But I would think 30 fish in a 300 gallon is not that much heavier a bioload. Certainly to the upper side, but many of your fish are to the smaller end of the scale.

 

[concept3]

Oh yeah, by the way Carlo-

you don't need to feed DT's or all those other supplements to your fish or corals. The organics from the fish food is enough for all that. you are smply adding more organics to your tank, hence the possible higher nitrates. As an experiment, why don't you quit all the Kent stuff and the DT's for about 2 weeks and then check your nitrates a week and a half later (total 3.5 -4 weeks). BUT Don't change the regular food regimen. I'd be interested to see the results.

 

[Carlo]

Carlo-
<snip>
His feeding regimen is this:
2 Ice cube size frozen fish food mix (my recipe) once a day at 5pm....... no more.
<snip>

Are you talking about the same size "ice cube" that you would put in a soft drink or are you talking about the small "cube" size that most frozen fish food comes in? If you are talking about normal size ice cubes then that's a HUGE amount of food to add to the tank at one time. I'd think it would be way better feeding much smaller portions throughout the day since many of the larger fish on that list are grazers.

He has a lot going for him by way of having 500lbs of liverock in the tank. I only have 200lbs or so since all of this is in a 120 gallon tank. As I move all this to a larger tank it will get much easier to control water parameters as the live rock makes a huge difference.

I'm not sure I agree on the "conditioning" statement. While the fish can surely adapt to getting fed once a day I'm not sure it's in their best interest as most fish graze throughout the day. I'm trying to "mimic" this as much as possible by introducing smaller amounts of food multiple times a day.

 

[concept3]

Well, we use the cheap dollar store ice cube trays which are a little smaller compared to the standard cubes. Let me rephrase the conditioning statement- I meant to say adapting to the feeding regimen. He feeds this way since he's out at 5:00 am and comes home at 4 when his actinics turn on. (His 2 teenage kids and wife don't really partake in the reefing activities, it's more like a "my dad's got a cool tank" factor to them. We did his photoperiod that way so HE can enjoy his tank more when he comes home.

His fish grazers pick at the rock all day, and his main fish is what really benefits from the heavy feeding including his corals in the early evening. All the food is just about consumed within 10 minutes with the rest being minute particles in the water column which I imagine gets consumed by the smaller fish and other organisms/corals. Pumps get turned back on after an hour or so.

As I mentioned earlier, I myself have bumped it up to two feedings a day in my tank (give or take 3-4 hours in between) which has benefitted my anthias and wrasses, the colors are fast getting better on the corals now too, as I've always noticed that the same coral in someone elses' system get a little darker than in mine.

If you look at your bioload, rock and parameters, they are rather similar to his, but proportionately smaller in size. The only thing that we don't do is use the coral feeding supplements anymore which I think MAY be part of the reason of your nitrates.

 

[Carlo]

Boy, I thought I was a heavy feeder!

Carlo, I know you have a large tank, but how large is it? From Merv's comments it sounds like it's in the 300 gallon range. How much rock? Sand or no sand?

Nope, it's a 120 display with 40 gallon sump, 7 gallon HOB ruge and 20 gallon tank plumbed in as another fuge. I have 200 lbs of liverock in the system and 4 inches of live crushed coral. Big mistake on the coral. It looks really nice but trappes way to much stuff. I've been sucking it out little by little with each water change. When I move the contents to the next tank it will be 1-2mm sand at about 1.0 to 1.5".

I have the same question as John, tell us more about how you feed the frozen foods.

What I'm presently doing is feeding one cube of mysis shrimp 2 times daily. I also feed one cube of either Invert Food, Krill, Spirulina Brine Shrimp, Brine Shrimp, Squid or Tubifex Worms worms with each of the mysis shrimp cubes. So the fish get a total of 4 cubes with at least 3 different things during the day. I won't feed the two brine shrimps during the same day and will probably not purchase the brine anymore and just purchase the spiruline brine instead.

I'll probably start blending my own foods soon. It'll be similar to the above (all cubes mentioned) with artic pods, zooplankton, oysters and clams thrown in.

My gut feel is 2x a day of the single seving of the dry food would be enough; assuming you feed a healthy portion of frozen foods at least every other day. I'm not familiar with all the additives you use. I find garlic and selcon to be enough for me. It also sounds like you have sufficient natural life in the rock for grazing. I would keep up with the DT's for the pods and the clams.

I have the automated feeder set to a pretty minimal amount of food. It delivers way less then I'd manually add. I'd guess the feeder is only about 25% open if that makes sense. I decided to feed a couple of times at night because of the nocturnal fish.

I see you have LPS. I try to target feed mine 1 or 2x a week, which includes plenty of leftovers to keep the fish happy.

I actually haven't target fed anything in my tank. I don't shut anything down when I feed either. I'm kind of lazy at this. My skimmer works really well but if I stop/start it I will need to adjust it and find it's not worth it. With all the in-tank circulation if I drop any frozen food in the tank it gets blown everywhere and all the corals have a chance at the food too.

So 2x a day for the dry food, every other day feed frozen, and one or two times a week target feed the LPS as part of the frozen feeding process. After lights out dose DT's 2x a week. Or near lights out, incorporate target feeding the clams with DT's when you target the LPS. Thats what I do with my clam and gorgonian.

I was always under the impression (what I do) that you feed Phytoplankton with the lights on and Zooplankton with the lights out. Is this not correct?

I'm extrapolating from my experience with a 75, that had 8 fish, now 6 thanks to my purle tang! But I would think 30 fish in a 300 gallon is not that much heavier a bioload. Certainly to the upper side, but many of your fish are to the smaller end of the scale.

Well if you extrapolate your 75 to my 120 (about 160 total gallons) then you'll be closer to the truth.

Carlo

PS thanks for all the input so far guys!

 

[kabal2]

carlo, thank you for posting this question, as i see now im starving my fish big time, i have one fire tang, 2 clowns, 1 basslet, 2 wrasse, 1 foxface and i feed them 2 time a week, personaly i think you can reduce the flakes, and keep the frozen food, the only thing i will do is get a bigger skimmer, and will the filter media you run im sure you will be alright

Gabe

 

[Brian]

I don't know if this has been discussed or not. (Man, this is a lengthy thread!)

Do you rinse your frozen food before you feed? I know you don't like to hear it, but "heavy bioload" is an understatement. That has to be the root of the problem. I can't see a system of that size being able to support that many fish without something having to "give". I'm not trying to be negative here, or cause trouble....just throwing out my ideas.

 

[Carlo]

carlo, thank you for posting this question, as i see now im starving my fish big time, i have one fire tang, 2 clowns, 1 basslet, 2 wrasse, 1 foxface and i feed them 2 time a week, personaly i think you can reduce the flakes, and keep the frozen food, the only thing i will do is get a bigger skimmer, and will the filter media you run im sure you will be alright

Gabe

Hi Gabe,

That was part of the reason for the post. While I'm pretty sure I'm "about right". I thought it might make for good conversation and learning/tweeking for others. That's the reason I went into so much detail about my setup and list of fish/inverts/corals so others could compare their habits to mine if atleast on a "smaller" scale bio-load wise. Also maybe get ideas for other types of food they might want to use from time to time.

Carlo

 

[kabal2]

well if i was you, i will stop all the kent crap, the only good thing are the calcium, alk, and mag, after that i dont like them, i think, i have them all of them, and the only thing i got was long, long, long, hair algae

 

[Carlo]

Oh yeah, by the way Carlo-

you don't need to feed DT's or all those other supplements to your fish or corals. The organics from the fish food is enough for all that. you are smply adding more organics to your tank, hence the possible higher nitrates. As an experiment, why don't you quit all the Kent stuff and the DT's for about 2 weeks and then check your nitrates a week and a half later (total 3.5 -4 weeks). BUT Don't change the regular food regimen. I'd be interested to see the results.

That would be a good experiment but since my nitrate reactors as still "breaking" in I wouldn't be able to tell what the lower nitrates are from (reactor or less additives).

I think you made a good point on the Kent products. Here's a breakdown of the analysys of some of these (off the bottles).

PhytoPlex:
0.40% Crude Protein (min)
0.20% Crude Fat (min)
1.00% Crude Fiber (max)
96.00% Moisture (max)
0.02% Omega 3 Fatty Acids (min)
5.00% Ash (max)

ChromaPlex:
0.40% Crude Protein (min)
0.20% Crude Fat (min)
0.50% Crude Fiber (max)
99.00% Moisture (max)
1.00% Ash (max)
103 IU per oz. Carotenoids

ZooPlex:
0.30% Crude Protein (min)
0.30% Crude Fat (min)
99.50% Moisture (max)
0.10% Ash (max)
0.08% Omega 3 Fatty Acids

Coral Accel:
99.900% Moisture (max)
0.200% Crude Protein (min)
0.050% Crude Fat (min)
0.000% Crude Fiber (min)
.1 mg/oz Iodine (min)
1mg/oz Ascorbic Acid
12 IU/oz Vitamin A

Micro Vert:
3.3% Crude Protein (min)
0.8% Crude Fat (min)
0.3% Crude Fiber (max)
96% Moisture (max)
10 mg/oz Calcium (min)
1 mg/oz Iodine (min)
12 iU/oz mg/oz Vitamin A (min)
1 mcg/oz Vitamin B12 (min)
1 mg/oz Ascorbin Acid (min)
1 mg/oz Thiamin - Vitamin B1 (min)
1 mg/oz Pyrodoxine - Vitamin B6 (min)

Coral Vite:
1400 mg/oz Calcium (min)
22 mg/oz Iodine (min)
3.38 mg/oz Iron (min)
5.580 mg/oz Magnesium (min)
36 mg/oz Potassium (min)
460 mg/oz Strontium (min)
25 IU/ozVitamin A
2 mg/oz Ascorbin Acid
2 mg/oz Thiamine (Vitamin B-1)
2 mg/oz Pyridoxine (Vitamin B-6)
2 mcg/oz Vitamin B-12

Essential Elements:
2 mg/oz Calcium (min)
2.86 mg/oz Iodine (min)
0.65 mg/oz Iron (min)
2 mg/oz Magnesium (min)
0.136 mg/oz Manganeso (min)
0.0170 Molybdenum (min)
2 mg/oz Potassium (min)

Many of them at first glance overlap but some if you read the bottle and websites you can create a schedule that alternates certain ones. I originally thought "overkill" BUT I can tell a difference in the tank. Since I already have these products I'll start cutting back on the doses of these and note this in my logs.

The Coral Vite product of all of them does seem like it could be a keeper long term. It has a lot of different Vitamins in it as well as trace elements like Iodine, Iron, Magnesium, Potassium & Strontium in it. It of couse has a lot of calcium in it to but with Kalk and calcium reactor I'm not too worried about that.

While I think I agree with you on all the Kent stuff I'm not sure I'd agree with stopping the DT. Organics from the frozen and flake food aren't the same as the phyto. The pod population itself is going to benefit from it wouldn't you think?

Carlo

 

[Carlo]

I don't know if this has been discussed or not. (Man, this is a lengthy thread!)

Do you rinse your frozen food before you feed? I know you don't like to hear it, but "heavy bioload" is an understatement. That has to be the root of the problem. I can't see a system of that size being able to support that many fish without something having to "give". I'm not trying to be negative here, or cause trouble....just throwing out my ideas.

I was but after talking to a couple of company's that process the food I don't rinse anymore. You're not going to wash "phosphates" away and you are really getting rid of some of the vitimins and minerals that would have been added to the water.

What I do is put a cube in a shot glass size plastic cup (lid from cough med) and add a couple of drops of garlic to it. Then in about 5 minutes I fill the cup with tank water so the temp helps it to "melt". Then I add it to the tank.

Carlo