T5 Questions

[cmsurfr22]

i've been looking into switching to a T5 setup from T12 VHO. i have a 72" canopy and 3 icecap 430 ballasts. here are my options:

Option 1:
Sell:
3 - Icecap 430's with wiring
3 - Pairs of Endcaps
3 - Standoffs
Buy:
3 - Icecap 36" 4 Lamp T5 Retro Kit
12 - 3' T5 Bulbs

Total Watts: 468
Total cost: $1339.25 minus what i get for selling my current setup


Option 2:
Keep:
3 - Icecap 430's
Buy:
6 - T5 End Caps
6 - T5 Stand Offs
6 - 60in Sunlight Supply TEK II T5 Retrofit Reflector
6 - T5 Reflector Hardware
6 - 5' T5 Bulbs

Total Watts: 480
Total cost: $376.08

Option 3:
Keep:
3 - Icecap 430's
Buy:
6 - T5 End Caps
6 - T5 Stand Offs
6 - 60in Sunlight Supply TEK II T5 Retrofit Reflector
6 - T5 Reflector Hardware
6 - 6' T5 Bulbs

Total Watts: 630
Total cost: $394.46


1. Will my three icecap 430's power two 5' or two 6' bulbs for options 2 & 3?
2. Option 3 limits me to only a few companies that make 6' T5 Bulbs. Is this worth it?
3. Option 2 i could either stagger the bulbs giving me complete coverage end to end or keep them all centered leaving 6" on each side?

I'm open to all suggestions on what i should do...

 

[onefish2fish]

i believe the 430s do up to two 48inch bulbs but im not 100% on that

 

[DaveK]

I'm assuming your doing the 210 gal reef you mention in you signature.

My choice for T5 lighting would be option 3, since it's a lot more light, especially compared to options 2 and 1. This would give you the most light and still be a reasonable price.

Option 1 is out of sight expensive, your into the range of MHs at that point.

Option 2 is going to yield dark ends of the tanksince the lamps are not the full lenght.

You still may want to consider MH, depending upon what you want to keep in the system.

 

[mott768]

Would need to know the size of the tank to better help you, how deep is your tank? if it's greater than 24" you will need 80 watt T5's or MH's otherwise you will not have the needed penetration to put SPS and clams lower in the tank.

 

[Edwardw771]

Who makes 6 foot t5s? They weren't avalible when i was shopping.
I have 8 39 Watt bulbs and 8 54 Watt on my 265. And its 30 inches deep. I have clams and SPS on bottom of the tank.

The best way to do t5s is to mix up the colors of bulbs. They make the corals pop.
ATI 1200K Aquablue Special
ATI Pro Color
ATI Blue Plus (Best Blue bulbs I've ever seen Blue Plus and Giesemann Actinic plus are every close to the same can't tell them apart)
Giesemann Actinic Plus

 

[cmsurfr22]

i believe the 430s do up to two 48inch bulbs but im not 100% on that

if this is the case than options 2 & 3 are out of the question

I'm assuming your doing the 210 gal reef you mention in you signature.

My choice for T5 lighting would be option 3, since it's a lot more light, especially compared to options 2 and 1. This would give you the most light and still be a reasonable price.

Option 1 is out of sight expensive, your into the range of MHs at that point.

Option 2 is going to yield dark ends of the tanksince the lamps are not the full lenght.

You still may want to consider MH, depending upon what you want to keep in the system.

yes it is a 210 gallon dimensions: 72"L X 24"W x 29"H

the only problem i see with option 3 is that it limits my bulb selection to one company that i know of which is helios. i'd like to get into some sps and clams. but i do not want to spend the money for MH's nor deal with the heat. i would also like to keep my canopy as i do not want to look at light fixures or have things hanging from the ceiling.

Who makes 6 foot t5s? They weren't avalible when i was shopping.

http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Helios

 

[redfishbluefish]

Excuse the quasi highjack, but I think the answer to this could help here too:

Could someone explain ballast math? That is, the IceCap 430 states it supports 330 watts yet I’m told I can only run two 48” (54W) T5’s on that ballast. When I do the math, that’s only 108 watts. If it will run 330 watts, why can’t I run four, 4 footers (216 watts), or for that fact, six 4 footers (324 watts). What am I missing??

 

[mott768]

Who makes 6 foot t5s? They weren't avalible when i was shopping.
I have 8 39 Watt bulbs and 8 54 Watt on my 265. And its 30 inches deep. I have clams and SPS on bottom of the tank.

The best way to do t5s is to mix up the colors of bulbs. They make the corals pop.
ATI 1200K Aquablue Special
ATI Pro Color
ATI Blue Plus (Best Blue bulbs I've ever seen Blue Plus and Giesemann Actinic plus are every close to the same can't tell them apart)
Giesemann Actinic Plus

There is no 6' T5, the 80 watt T5's are 5' bulbs, they have been on the market for a couple of years now.

Also let me know a year from now if your clams and SPS are still alive and fully colored. 39w and 54w do not penetrate enough in a 30" deep tank to support crocea and maxima clams for a long healthy life. SPS it all depends on the type. The par is based on wattage not how many bulbs you have, that's like running 4 150 watt MH on a 30" deep tank your still only going to get the par based on wattage not the number of bulbs.

 

[cmsurfr22]

i believe the 430s do up to two 48inch bulbs but im not 100% on that

unless this is a typo on PA's website they sell a Icecap 60" 2 Lamp T5 Retro Kit that comes with an icecap 430. so to me that means that it has nothing to do with watts but has something to do with the number of bulbs.

There is no 6' T5

Helios 105W - 71" 11k Daylight HO T5 Light Bulb

 

[mott768]

There is no 6' T5

Giesemann and ATI both did try to come out with a 71" about a year ago but they never made it to retail they were recalled before hitting the market, the problem is the bulbs are unstable and would snap in half, especialy when shipping, another problem was with supporting the reflector. Helios must have just came out with them, I just hope they figured out a way over the Germans to make them stable.

 

[Edwardw771]

Also let me know a year from now if your clams and SPS are still alive and fully colored. 39w and 54w do not penetrate enough in a 30" deep tank to support crocea and maxima clams for a long healthy life. SPS it all depends on the type. The par is based on wattage not how many bulbs you have, that's like running 4 150 watt MH on a 30" deep tank your still only going to get the par based on wattage not the number of bulbs.
[/quote]

Do you have a 30 inch tank or any research you can point out to confirm this? Maybe the ballests that you use aren't over driven like IceCap 660s.IceCap Overdriving means the ballast will run the lamps at a higher wattage than they are rated for. It will run a 54 watt T5 lamp at between 75 and 80 watts.

 

[concept3]

croceas and maximas are rock dwelling tridacnids anyhoo. They look better within the rock structure instead of the sand, and fare better as well. Both species secrete a calcium dissolving slime on the "foot" to allow them to nestle in between rock/coral structures in the wild.

squamosas and deresas require less light and are therefore lower resident clams, in or on substrate.



but, might I add.....the intensity of them t5'a are insane!

 

[mott768]

Also let me know a year from now if your clams and SPS are still alive and fully colored. 39w and 54w do not penetrate enough in a 30" deep tank to support crocea and maxima clams for a long healthy life. SPS it all depends on the type. The par is based on wattage not how many bulbs you have, that's like running 4 150 watt MH on a 30" deep tank your still only going to get the par based on wattage not the number of bulbs.

Do you have a 30 inch tank or any research you can point out to confirm this? Maybe the ballests that you use aren't over driven like IceCap 660s.IceCap Overdriving means the ballast will run the lamps at a higher wattage than they are rated for. It will run a 54 watt T5 lamp at between 75 and 80 watts.
[/quote]

Ed,
your forgetting I've been using T5's since they first came on the market, in the beginning I was told I wouldn't be able to keep SPS and clams but I proved all the doubters wrong, I also did have 14 tanks at one time and yes I had a 30" deep tank with T5's, I wasn't able to keep sps or clams low in the tank. All I'm trying to do is educate people and make sure they don't buy something they will regret later on. What I state is from experience not opinion.

 

[Edwardw771]

maybe back then you couldn't use t5s for a 30 inch tank. You can now with IceCap 660s.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Since you would like to keep your canopy, a good option would be the TekLight Ready Fit Retros. No wiring involved. For your setup I'd recommend 8 X 80Watts. No overdriving necessary IMHO, as overdriven bulbs need to be replaced more frequently than non-overdriven bulbs. Overdriven bulbs also run hotter than non-overdriven bulbs.

If you're a handy-man, and like to tinker with ballasts and wires, you could get regular retro fits as well.

Here's a picture of my canopy. We had to slightly modify it, by cutting/sawing out some of the wood inside it to squeeze them all in there, especially since each reflector is a little over 3". But it worked, and you can't even tell it's been modified.

Now my tank is only 24" deep, and I am able to keep clams on the sandbed (both my Crocea and Maxima couldn't find a cozy spot on the rocks and leaped onto the sand sooner or later :-[). Since your tank is 5" deeper, I honestly don't know how well one of those clams would do on the bottom over a long period of time, so I'd probably try to keep them in the rockwork somewhere.

 

[onefish2fish]

Now my tank is only 24" deep, and I am able to keep clams on the sandbed (both my Crocea and Maxima couldn't find a cozy spot on the rocks and leaped onto the sand sooner or later :-[). Since your tank is 5" deeper, I honestly don't know how well one of those clams would do on the bottom over a long period of time, so I'd probably try to keep them in the rockwork somewhere.

go with a 6 or so inch DSB to make up for it?

 

[Edwardw771]

What would be a really interesting test would be to put the 8 bulb Tek Retro right next to the IceCap Retro and see which one is brighter and hotter. As for lamp life, I plan on changing my bulbs once a year. I know they say you can go longer but I know all lamps drop color after about a year. Wendy wanna bring your hood to a meeting sometime? If not maybe I'll bring my 3 foot retro down to your house.

 

[JerseyWendy]

Jon, I'm sure a DSB will help some, but I personally wouldn't use 6" of sand.

Ed, sure, no problem, I'll just pick up the entire canopy and tuck it under one armpit. LOL.

Look, everyone has their own preference and opinions, and as long as it's working well for someone, nobody can really say that the other person is wrong or doing things wrong. Right? You love your lights, and they're working great for you. I love mine, and they're working great for me (...so far so good anyway). You have great results with yours, and I certainly can't complain about mine. My bulbs will be changed every 9 months, 12 months tops, simply because it'll make me feel comfortable and because when I talk to German/European T5 users they recommend not to go past 12 months and I chose to listen to them as I feel they are more experienced with T5 usage as it's been around there longer than here.

 

[cmsurfr22]

thanks everyone for the input. i think i'm going to give 8 rows of 80 watt T5 bulbs staggered a try. see how it works and go from there. i'll keep the higher light loving SPS and Clams higher up on the rock work and the lower light clams on the sand, like merv says its more natural anyway. first i have to set up my tank though. 8)

 

[Edwardw771]

I agree we all have our taste and opinion based on our experience. From the Pics I've seen of your tank and seeing Tom's tank in person. I know you guys must be doing something right.

I maybe a little crazy when it comes to lights just a little. My only experience is with IceCap and I'd like to see the difference with the Sun light supply t5s. And understand everything about both. One day when i grow up I want to work for a lighting company. PS Sorry to jack your thread.