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What can i do to get corals to grow faster/healthier?

S

saltwater4life

Hey guys,
Maybe it's just me but when i look at my corals they just don't seem to grow as much as other peoples... I got a green and a red shroom about a year and a half ago and they've just started to split i have like 4 of each now and that's because i cut them out of my rock when i upgraded... That isn't normal is it? I know there's a lot of stuff to get that will help just want to start with what i need the most.
Here's a few things i know i need. Feel free to help me add to it or change it.
  • Skimmer
  • Phosban reactor
  • Refuge
  • Other supplements

Thank you guys,


Nick
 
MikeNapoli

MikeNapoli

Honestly I think different things grow at different rates in everyones tank. I myself can't seem to grow mushrooms fast at all but my duncan will grow 3 new heads a week!!

Some SPS seem to grow pretty slow where others just take off. I think it really depends on the tank itself. I don't think there are any two tanks alike with water chemistry.

If you have hard corals you can always add equipment like a Ka Reactor or a Ca Reactor to help with the calcium and PH but you could also dose with regular suplimentation.

I also heard that once your tank is well established. 1 year+ that things just start to take off. I'm not there yet so I can't say from personal experience.
 
S

saltwater4life

Thanks man, I know what you mean. It's just everything seems to grow slooow for me. my zoa's never seem to grow new polyps, frags from last still look the same... I guess i havn't tried to many corals. (Hopefully acans do real good hahah) Only thing that i got to grow was xiena but then it melted away... I though about a Ca reactor but just didn't think it would be worth it unless it was a full tank...
 
MikeNapoli

MikeNapoli

I think that getting a skimmer will definitely help, no doubt about that. As far as other equipment it depends on some of the problems you're having.

Besides slow growth.. do you have any algae issues.?

What are the perameters of the tank? How long has the tank been up?
 
S

saltwater4life

Yeah that's one of the top things i need to get just don't know if it'll be hard to get one that fits.
Umm the tanks been up since the first of March (Still very young) As far as algae problems i blame them on the tanks age. Last time i checked parameters were all in check. I usually do that and cleaning/checking equipment on Mondays so I'll check tomorrow.
I forget the name of it but i remember reading about people dosing some type of supplement and getting notice-able changes.
 
blange3

blange3

Could be lots of things, Nick.

I know you say your parameters are Ok, but what are they? In particular ph, alk, ca and mg. Also temp and sg.

What bulb combination and ballasts do you have on the T5's? If you are overdriving all high par bulbs with icecap ballasts you might have too much light for your 'shrooms.

What type of corals are you focusing on? Some like higher nutirients making a skimmer less important. Sometimes flow is the problem. SPS and many sofites can't get enough. My LPS collection thrives on lower flow.
 
E

Erich

I agree, you need to monitor your parameter constaintly. Making sure your water is extremely clean and bringing your Nitrates to near nill also helps. But a skimmer will help, which is a must. Otherwise your nitrate will run away, then you will be doing alot of water changes constaintly.
 
J

Jcurry@wesketch

Is your tank only 2 months old or 14 months, there's a big difference. Second what are the corals your keeping? You've mentioned acans, mushrooms and xenia but what else do you have. Soft corals often release toxins into the water to stunt the growth of nearby corals and help them compete for space. Make sure your running carbon 24/7 with soft corals. Also what spectrum of lighting are you running? Heavy blue light (20K, 14K etc) is good maintaing color but impedes growth. You could switch or add another bulb in the 6500K range to help speed things up.
I also find with my soft corals and lps they like higher nutrients in the water the column (at least that's what I tell myself). So you may not need a bigger skimmer.

And the #1 thing to get your corals to grow...keep your hands out of the tank and stop messing with stuff.

But most of all be careful what you wish for. Before you know it all your corals will be growing together and stinging each other and dropping babies all over the place.
 
S

saltwater4life

Thanks guys,
The tank was an upgrade (Upgraded 2 months old)
I've only got a few corals. 8-10 types of Zoa, open brain, unknown anemone and shrooms.
Lights 2-11000k and 2-actinic
Just tested Alk= 2.2mil, pH= 8.0, Ammonia= 0ppm, Nitrite= 0ppm, Nitrate= 0ppm, sanity 1.022 and temp 78.2
 
Hawkeye

Hawkeye

Satan's Milkman said:
Making sure your water is extremely clean and bringing your Nitrates to near nill also helps.
Click to expand...
I can understand this statement for SPS - but for shrooms? I don't know about that. But again - with this hobby - so many different paths lead to success.

nick - with patience the shrooms will colonize everything in your tank. Eventually I bet you will post a year's time asking how to prevent them from colonizing everything. :)
 
V

vangvace

saltwater4life said:
Thanks guys,
The tank was an upgrade (Upgraded 2 months old)
I've only got a few corals. 8-10 types of Zoa, open brain, unknown anemone and shrooms.
Lights 2-11000k and 2-actinic
Just tested Alk= 2.2mil, pH= 8.0, Ammonia= 0ppm, Nitrite= 0ppm, Nitrate= 0ppm, sanity 1.022 and temp 78.2
Click to expand...
mil? and do you have a Calcium test by any chance? If not what salt brand are you using?

I had the same problem with zoas. Nothing, nothing, nothing, then BANG! They've grown onto adjoining rocks and I'm asking about fragging.

Oh and are you spot feeding anything?
 
S

saltwater4life

Lol thanks Phil, I noticed i had the most groth while i was on vaction. Hopefully it's just cheap stuff that doesn't grow fast ;D (I wish)

vangvace said:
saltwater4life said:
Thanks guys,
The tank was an upgrade (Upgraded 2 months old)
I've only got a few corals. 8-10 types of Zoa, open brain, unknown anemone and shrooms.
Lights 2-11000k and 2-actinic
Just tested Alk= 2.2mil, pH= 8.0, Ammonia= 0ppm, Nitrite= 0ppm, Nitrate= 0ppm, sanity 1.022 and temp 78.2
Click to expand...
mil? and do you have a Calcium test by any chance? If not what salt brand are you using?

I had the same problem with zoas. Nothing, nothing, nothing, then BANG! They've grown onto adjoining rocks and I'm asking about fragging.

Oh and are you spot feeding anything?
Click to expand...
messed that up... My Alk test kit measures by meq/l so it's 2.2 meq/l, it's in the middle of Normal on the test card. (Red Sea test kit)
No i don't have a Ca test kit... I'm using Reef Crystal salt mix.
I spot feed my open brain and anemone ether shrimp from the grocery store, mysis shrimp or silver-side about once a week.
 
V

vangvace

It happens, but I had to check. You're Alk is a little low, but without a Ca test and a 8.0 pH...

Sounds like you have things under control. :)
 
J

Jcurry@wesketch

Everything sounds good, all you need now is some patience. keep up the good husbandry and things will start to take off in a few months. I copy clipped Eric Borneman's reply on tank maturity, it's a very good read.

>>I know Eric to be a promoter of letting the tank's "natural" flora and fauna proliferate for many months, and I agree that this is a very natural and safe approach. However, I think someone who has "been there" can modify these guidelines according to their experience. No, you can't rush quality - I agree that rushing things is not preferable. If I had the space and time, I would have waited longer than a month to put any animals in my tank. I guess what I'm saying is that experience can allow one to get away with some things . Then again, sometimes not. <<

I agree one can go much much faster depending on what one begins with in the first place, and depending on how many times you've done it before. that said, with the average start up, there are certain things, as mentioned, that cannot be hurried, and hurrying seems to make them worse rather than better. The experience plays a part when you are able to nip some of those things in the bud because you have dealt with them before even in a mature tank.



>>I'm going on my 4th month of cycling with no live stock other then some turbo's and blue hermits. I have been feeding on the heavy side and will start to feed live plankton for the next 4 months. Then I will start to add corals. The fish will be added very last. The one thing that I have noticed is that the diversity of life is much great during the cycling process so far.<<

Yeah, that is the amazing part...a shame most will never witness that.

>>Hi Eric, I was hoping you could help me to understand better what it means for a system to "mature" or "become established". Hobbyists (me included) are always saying not to keep that sps or this anenome for a least a year untill your system has matured.
What exactly are the differances between a tank which finished cycling a month ago and one that finished cycling 11 months ago.<<

more below

>>Does it have to do with water parameters being more stable?<< yes, nut ot necessarily

>>Does it have to do with natural food availability?<< Not sure but I don't think so.

>>Does "tank maturity" pertain more to those who utilze a DSB, because it takes 6 months for a DSB to become functional ?<<

no. Tank maturity seems to be even more of an issue without the sand bed.. The sand bed just takes some time to get enough nutrients in it to sustain populations and stratify into somewhat stable communities...seems like a longer period of time makes things go in the other direction.

So, here's the tank reason, and then I'll blow into some ecology for you.

When you get a tank, you start with no populations of anything. You get live rock to form the basis of the biodiversity - and remember that virtually everything is moderated by bacteria and photosynthesis in our tanks. So liverock is the substrate for all this stuff, and also has a lot of life on it. How much depends on a lot of things. Mostly, marine animals and plants don;t like to be out of water for a day at a time...much less the many days to sometimes a week that often happens. So, assuming you are not using existing rock form a tank, or the well-treated aquacultured stuff, you have live rock that has either relatively free of anything alive, or you have live rock with a few stragglers and a whole lot of stuff dying or about to die because it won;t survive in the tank. From the moment you start, you are in the negative. Corallines will be dying, sponges, dead worms and crustaceans and echinoids and bivavles, many of which are in the rock and you won't ever see. Not to mention the algae, cyanobacteria, and bacteria...most of whcih is dead and will decompose, or which will die and decompose. This is where the exisitng bacteria get kick started...

Bacteria grow really fast, and so they are able to grow to levels that are capable of uptaking nitrogen within...well, the cycling time of a few weeks to a month or so. However, if you realize the doubling time of these bugs, you would know that in a month, you should have a tank packed full of bacteria and no room for water. That means something is killing or eating bacteria. Also realize that if you have a tank with constant decompositon happening at a rate high enough to spike ammonia off the scale, you have a lot of bacteria food...way more than you will when things stop dying off and decomposing. So, bacterial growth may have caught up with the level of nitrogen being produced, but things are still dying...you just test zero for ammonia cause there are enough bacteria present to keep upwitht he nitrogen being released by the dying stuff....does not mean things are finished decomposing.

Now, if things are decomposing, they are releasing more than ammonia. Guess what dead sponges release? All their toxic metabolites. Guess what else? All their natural antibiotic compounds...prevents some microbes from doing very well. Same with the algae, the inverts the cyano, the dinoflagellates, etc. So, let's just figure this death and decomposition is gonna take a while. OK, so now we have a tank packed with some kinds of bacteria, probably not much of others. Eventually the death stops. Now, what happens to all that biomass of bacteria without a food source? They die. Ooops. And, denitrification is a slow process. Guess what else...bacteria also have antibiotics, toxins, etc. all released when they die. But, the die-off is slow, relative to the loss of nutrients, and there is aleady a huge population...so you never test ammonia..."The water tests fine"

But, all these swings are happening...every time, they get less and less, but they keep happening. Eventually, they slow and stabilize. What's left? A tank with limited denitrification and a whole lot of other stuff in the water. Who comes to the rescue and thrives? The next fastest growing groups...cyano's, single celled algae, protists, ciliates, etc. Then they do their little cycle thing. And then the turf algae. Turfs get mowed dow by all the little amphipods that are suddenly springing up cause they have a food source. Maybe you've boght some snails by now, too. And a fish. And the fish dies, of course, because it may not have ammonia to contend with, but is has water filled with things we can't and don't test for...plus, beginning aquarists usually skimp on lights and pumps initially, and haven't figured out that alkalinity test, so pH and O2 are probably swinging wildly at this point.

So, the algae succession kick in, and eventually you have a good algal biomass that handles nitrogen, the bacteria have long settled in and also deal with nutrients, and the aquarium keeper has probably stopped adding fish for a spell cause they keep dying and they started to visit boards and read books and get the knack of the tank a bit. They have probably also added abunch of fix-it-quick chemicals that didn;t help any, either. Also, they are probably scared to add corals that would actually help with the photosynthesis and nutrient uptake, or they have packed in corals that aren't tolerant of those conditions.

About a year into it, the sand bed is productive and has stratified, water quality is stable, and the aquarist has bought a few more powerheads, understand water quality a bit, corallines and algae, if not corals and other things are photosynthesizing well, and the tank is "mature." That's when fish stop dying when you buy them (at least the cyanide free ones) and corals start to live and grow and I stop getting posts about "I just bought a coral and its dying and my tank is two months old" and they start actually answering some questions here and there.

So, ecologically, this is successional population dynamics. Its normal, and it happens when there is a hurricane or a fire, or whatever. In nature though, you have pioneer speices that are eventually replaced by climax communities. We usually try and stock immediately with climax species. And find it doesn't always work. Now, the "too mature" system is the old tank syndrome. Happens in nature, too. That whole forest fire reinvirograting the system is true. Equally true on coral reefs where the intermediate disturbacne hypothesis is the running thought on why coral reefs maintain very high diversity...theya re stable, but not too stable, and require storms, but not catastrophic ones....predation, but not a giant blanket of crown of thorns, mass bleaching, or loss of key herbivores.

This goes to show what good approximations these tanks are of mini-ecosystems. Things happen much faster in tanks, but what do you expect given the bioload per unit area. So, our climax xommunity happens in a couple years rather than a couple of centuries. Thing is, I am fully convinced that intermediate tank disturbance would prevent old tank syndrome.

So, that's it for now...time for me to hit the hay...sorry for typos, I am typing too fast in a dark office."

The rest or the thread is here if your interested;
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=249112&perpage=25&pagenumber=1


His book Aquarium Corals : Selection, Husbandry, and Natural History is an excellent resource. Even after almost 20 years in this hobby it's a book I refer to time and time again.

http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-Corals-Selection-Husbandry-Natural/dp/1890087483
 
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