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Ich ?

C

Chuck_NJ

Hi i am a newbie to the hobby i recently purchased a established 5 year old system that included a large yellow tank picasso trigger sohal tang and tomato clown.

I moved the system to my house and setup all was well for several weeks . I added a cople of anemones and some fether dusters and some coral.

About 2 weeks ago my picaaso became sick so i quarenteened it and it did not make it. It showed not exterior spots or rot it appeaered normal.

Just yesterday my son spotted a mark near the tail of my tomato clown. It looks like the a clear peice of his skin hanging off. His appetite is fine and he did not seem streessed. I did notice the past few nightw when the lights went out in the room and the aquiruim lights on he gets aggitated at his reflection and slams his tail hard into the glass making a pretty good noise.

I was wondering if he has a wound from slamming his tail or is this the onset of ich?

I put him in a quarenteen tyank last night and this morning that skin seems to be getting better. If this is ich how would I know would it spread over his body? The other fish show no signs of it.
 
Hawkeye

Hawkeye

Good to hear you have quarantine set up.

Can you list some info to help?

what size tank?
what is the water parameters - ammonia, nitrate, ph, alkalinity (maybe you could bring a sample to the LFS to test?)

The slamming of a fish's body against coral, substrate or glass does sound like an abnormal behavior.

In terms of fish - i read that you lost the picasso, but are QT'ing the clown. That leaves the sohal and yellow tang in the tank?
 
C

calaxa

Chuck,

Sorry to hear the loss of your trigger. This does not sound like cryptocaryon (ich is old name and is used for FW disease only now). When the picasso became ill, do you know what type of symptoms it exhibited? It is very very rare for crypto to have no spots show up. It does happen but that means all parasites are isolated in the gill tissue (this happens a lot with amyloodinium, aka marine velvet, but death follows at a very very fast rate). The clown is exhibiting some abnormal behavior and usually this is indicative of poor environmental parameters. Come back with the answers to Hawk's questions as I believe that your answer lies somewhere in there.
 
J

JerseyWendy

Chuck,

I agree that it doesn't sound like ich. But I do have a question for you. You said you added some corals to the tank that housed the Picasso, including anemones and feather dusters. Didn't the Picasso tear those up?

I'm only asking because when I had my first SW tank about 15 years ago, I, too had a Picasso trigger, and when I made the stupid mistake and added a Sebae anemone, my Picasso ripped it apart immediately. And he was only about 2.5" then. He was a great fish. Colorful, hardy, unafraid, tame, one heck of an eater (LOVED crayfish). By the time we moved and I sold my setup, he was close to 6".
 
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Chuck_NJ

The corals and feather duster where added after the picasso death. The picaaso just became lazy and did not want to swim a lot he preferred rto wedge himself in the rock work.

I have 2 turbo snails , 2 purple tipped anenomes , 1 cleaner shrimp , 1 buble coral, and one green zoa

The Sohal tank and yellow tang are still in tank with the inverts.


Water parameters are as follows

10 nitrate
0 nitrite
8.2 ph
0 amonia
400 calicium
.5 phosphates
alkilinity was normal cant rember number

water temp 80

Tank size 72 bowfront
 
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calaxa

How about the obvious? SG (measured with a calibrated refract if possible)? Increase and/or fortify the feedings with vitamins (selcon, zoecon, cod liver oil, etc). Crypto would show up on the tangs before a clown usually. Is there something outside the tank that might be making the clown do funny things (ie young kids bothering the tank, some reflective or bright object that might be annoying the clown, etc.)?
 
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Chuck_NJ

he clown only goes after its own reflection when the lights are out in the room and the tank light on. Thats when its can see its own reflection.
 
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calaxa

If you're positive it's reflection, he'll eventually figure it out. If that is the only thing wrong, I wouldn't worry too much. Does not sound like the trigger's death is related to the clown's behavior.
 
C

Chuck_NJ

How long in quarantine will the fish need to be ? It seems the mark on his tail is going away. If it were Ich would it spread thru out his body? How will I know if it is ich or any type of disease?
 
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calaxa

Chuck,

Post a picture if possible. Crypto appears as distinct dots on the body. They are bumpy and usually about the size of grains of sugar (1mm-2mm). The fish will often flash (scratch itself) on any surface possible. It is possible for there to be no dots if the parasite is embedded in the gill tissue. Crypto is usually not fatal on a healthy fish. If the fish is eating, he should fight it off though re-infection is likely. Eliminating crypto can be troublesome and may not be worthwhile to you. It must be done without any inverts and your main tank must be left fallow (no fish....inverts only) for at least 4 weeks. I have a thread here: http://www.njreefers.org/joomla/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=15534.0 with pictures of a fish with marine velvet (amyloodinium) which looks a lot like crypto (grains are typically smaller). MV, though, is a very fatal disease and kills very rapidly. MV also is hidden much more often as it targets gill tissue with a lot more frequency. QTing of any fish for 4 weeks gives a high confidence level that they have no MV (as any fish with it would probably have died by day 7). Another reason why crypto is unlikely on this clown is because he will have a thick slime coat to prevent the disease. The tangs, without the same type of slime coat, have much higher probability of getting it. Your fish sounds like he just has a physical wound or possibly lymphocystis (rare for a clown though....usually affects angels and butterflies). It's a viral disease and usually goes away on its own on a healthy fish. I think your fish is probably ok. Increase the feeding as suggested and take note of behavior.
 
C

Chuck_NJ

He just started feeding in the qt tank he was not happy being cooped up in there I added a few pvc pipes. Also I did not think of it but i had a emerlad crab that was in the rock right next to the anenome the clown was hosting. I did see it take a few wacks at the clown a while back. I took the emerald out of the tank and into the qt a couple days before the clown showed the marks on its tail.


The emerald was eating all the purple coraline off my liverock turning it white. I cant belive the amound of algae and how bad my rock looked after having the emeral in for a week or two.
 
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calaxa

Possible that an emerald (mithrax I am guessing?) may have hurt the clown but not usual unless it's a big crab. I'm not a big fan of them. Take the crab out of the QT. Maybe he is the source of your problems.
 
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Chuck_NJ

UPDATE

Well
my clownfish has been in qt for 3 days now and the mark that i saw on its tail is basicly non existant anymore . The fish has been eating and seems fine. How long would you keep in qt if there are no signs on anything on its bosy? I am guessing it must have been physical damage. What are your thoughts?
 
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calaxa

Based on what you said earlier, I agree it was physical damage. You can keep him in there for a few more days for observation but since this was a fish you already had in display, he can probably move back anytime. I would shoot for total of 1-2 weeks in QT and if no probs, move back. Don't want to stress him too much by moving back and forth constantly.
 
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calaxa

Sorry I was unclear.

This is strictly my opinion but I would keep him in QT for observation since he is already there. I think moving back and forth so quickly can be stressful. He is eating in there so watch to make sure everything is fine. I'm making assumption your QT has adequate filter/etc. If these are problematic, then I would say move him back. But in general, once something is in QT for observation, I think the guideline is min of 1 week to thoroughly inspect the specimen. For new arrivals, the guideline I would use is 4 weeks.
 
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Chuck_NJ

Thanks for that info. Now onto the next question. If you where to buy a fish from someone who has had it in there sysstem for years and you know it has not been a problem would you still QT for 4 weeks? Do you always QT reguardless of source?
 
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