POTM Recommendation discussion

[TanksNStuff]

Congrats Sandee. That was a cool pic, but I must admit I didn't vote for it due to the "slightly enhanced" part in the description. If the description didn't mention it was enhanced, I would have voted for it myself.

While that is not against the rules of the contest, I think "enhancement" should be prohibited by the rules. I think that just leaves the door open to people editing the photos to make them better than what they really are. I'M NOT SAYING SANDEE DID THIS! I'm just saying that software should not be involved since it makes it possible to alter the actual image. If someone really wanted to, they could make an ordinary looking coral have psychedelic colors or something and everyone would drool over it. I have no problems with resizing (1:1 ratio) or cropping or something to focus on a particular section of a photo.

I did not submit any entries this month so I have no axe to grind or anything. In fact, I think the "slight enhancement" done with Sandee's pic was probably completely harmless and irrelevant. For all I know, her iPhone probably didn't give her an option not to use it, lol. I just decided to vote for another photo just on this principle.

Sandee, I hope you don't take this personally. I'm happy that you won and I really did like the pic. I just felt the need to mention this to see what others feel about it.

 

[malulu]

- the slightly enhancement could be just brighten up...etc.
- yes, the enhancement could be lead to big can of worms later on...
- should we split up this topic to other thread?

Sandee, Congrats again for the great catch (of fish and the picture moment!)

 

[TanksNStuff]

David, if you want to split my post into another thread, I'd be ok with that. (Just leave the "Congrats" part here please!)

I don't want my post (or any replies to it) to muddy up Sandee's Congrat's thread.

 

[malulu]

i don't know how...
tried... failed...
can you start a new thread instead?
thx

 

[Sandee]

Quick reply (no tone)

Member Comment Above: << That was a cool pic, but I must admit I didn't vote for it due to the "slightly enhanced" part in the description. If the description didn't mention it was enhanced, I would have voted for it myself >>

POTM Instructions: << Submit your photo, along with a brief description, by emailing them to Photos@njreefers.org. Please put POTM - USERNAME in the subject. The description will be used on the home page. It should include any special technique used, something about the subject of the photo, the camera/lense used, what post production work, if any was done (cropping, color correction, sharpening, layering ....), and anything anectdotal that you'd like to tell. >>

Wow, I lost a vote for trying to be honest and following the directions; I indicated what camera I used, post production work aka ‘slightly enhanced’. Actually didn’t want to use the term ‘color correction’ as not to suggested I *colored* anything (like changing an ordinary looking coral to one with psychedelic colors, for example).

Member Comment Above: << I think the "slight enhancement" done with Sandee's pic was probably completely harmless and irrelevant. For all I know, her iPhone probably didn't give her an option not to use it, lol. I just decided to vote for another photo just on this principle >>

“completely harmless and irrelevant” – thanks, I think (?). As a matter of fact, yeah / sorta - the iPhone does a pretty fantastic job as is, and the native iPhone app does auto-enhance (ie, improve lighting, corrects for florescent lights maybe and removes red eye, etc.). If I had an even better camera, say a Hasselblad H4D (60 megapixels), based on the subject matter and conditions – the raw image may be far superior to anyone’s PhotoShop’ed submission – and since, according to the (possibly new) rules, the guy who spent $60K on a camera would win (un-enhanced). And that’s where I draw the line … no image altered, PhotoShop’ed photos …

Member Comment Above: << Sandee, I hope you don't take this personally. >>

I am. We’re all adults here, we all have an opinion – I get it. It’s just a POTM thing, vote for what you like, on to the next thing. No tone, just sayin’ …

BTW, I just took this picture of ChubbyBunny (image on the left - he’s sad, you can tell from this raw image, no enhancement at all, auto-settings off). His plastic log (his house) was cleaner then – bit more algae on it tonight. It’s the same fish, same crushed coral, different tank, different lights (pre and post move). The one on the right, is the exact picture I submitted to POTM, directly from my iPhone (image 398). The iPhone just bumps up the contrast a bit, whites are whiter … he’s a good fish either way …

 

[TanksNStuff]

I just wanted to formally apologize to Sandee for my original post here. Although I feel there should be a discussion on using / allowing software to enhance photo submissions, I did not mean to suggest that she had done anything wrong with her pics while bringing that up here. It was merely the possibility of manipulating a pic with software that I was concerned about and wanted to discuss.

I don't believe she did anything wrong whatsoever and she clearly followed the instructions for submitting an entry by describing it the way she did. Credit should have been given for being honest and including the enhancing part in the description too... something I meant to include in my original post but forgot.

In hind sight, I should have just said my congratz and brought up my topic in another thread.

 

[Tazmaniancowboy]

Thread split...Post here for discussion

 

[9supratt4]

George....although I agree with you....stopping people from enhancing photos is going to be near impossible. There is no way to know if someone enhanced a photo short of them telling someone.

I submitted a picture this month and last month....I'm sure you can figure out which ones were mine . I guess I can say that I enhanced my pictures because if I didn't the pictures would show a ton of particulate in the water, due to the distance I was from the subjects.

Again, it will be close to impossible to figure out who did and who didn't enhance their photos.

 

[Tazmaniancowboy]

Congrats Sandee. That was a cool pic, but I must admit I didn't vote for it due to the "slightly enhanced" part in the description. If the description didn't mention it was enhanced, I would have voted for it myself.

While that is not against the rules of the contest, I think "enhancement" should be prohibited by the rules.

I agree with you George and did the same as far as the vote. Enhancement can be a real problem and is not fair, However it is my understanding that the phone app automatically enhanced it. I did not know this when voting. I am against someone taking a pic and then enhancing it with an additional program to do so. Everybody will have different views on this. This is the first month that comments were posted with the Poll pictures which is something I am also against. I personally feel that the picture should be voted "for the picture" and then find out the details after it wins. Posting comments sways a vote either for or against for one particular reason or another.

I don't think much should be done to rules, I would just hope that people be honest and keep it fair. I have said it before and I will say it again, in my opinion a phone cam can catch just the right picture as a million dollar professional camera. It is in the eye of the photographer and the taste of the voter. Can a phone cam pic be as clear and vivid as a professional camera, NO, But to me this contest is about the focal point, humor, surroundings, etc.

Even with my above opinions, I would hate to turn this into a critical contest, we are a reef club, not a camera club and it is supposed to be fun!

 

[malulu]

since we are on the POTM rules topics, i would like:

- to allow submitter to have a max of 75 chars to post along with the voting pic ( the 75 is the max chars that i can fit in the configuration text box)

 

[malulu]

i see that Don beat me to it for the replied... and coincidentally we are the the same subject but in different side of the fence.

I think now a day, if someone have a high end macro len camera would get a better chance to win - so i would like to introduced the comments along the photos, to swing the vote on the story behind it...

to steal the quote from above we are not camera club, we are a reef club, but my view is whom got the best story with a picture to show the fun should win!

 

[9supratt4]

I agree with Taz....the descriptions and commentary of the pictures should not be posted.

 

[TanksNStuff]

Thanks for splitting this off and cleaning up the other thread Taz!

Yea, it is a touchy subject and I agree that it's almost impossible to tell whether a pic was altered via software. We will have to rely on the honor system, but at least if we let it be known that it's not fair... maybe some will refrain from doing it.

I didn't know at the time of voting that the phone app automatically enhances the pic either. I suppose if you are using an iPhone, you really don't have a choice. But at the same time, it's not exactly the same as you would be able to do in photoshop for instance.

Don, I think I agree that no descriptions should be posted with the pics either. Or at least nothing related to the camera or equipment. I guess it couldn't hurt to label what type of critter is in the pic, or the situation of when it was taken (something getting eaten by something, etc.) But this time around, the descriptions did sway my vote and apparently did for others too.

I also agree that the voting should be about the fun factor and not necessarily the quality of the pic.

Anyway, good to have the discussion going anyway.

 

[adesimone1]

Hey that isn't fair I entered my photo I was runner up. We never lose never never never. Poor Jr finally came out of
hiding and I only got six votes. Wrong just wrong I never win anything. Lol

CONGRATS Sandee on your winning pic.

 

[Sandee]

You know, fishcam runs on a bunch of cheap webcams -- not a "camera" as we're defining it here. Pictures are still pretty good!

Sandee | Sent from my iPhone!

 

[Nickjr000]

I agree with Taz....the descriptions and commentary of the pictures should not be posted.

+1, just an image cause after all thats what your voting on. Shouldnt b any words or creative techniques to sway anyone. Maybe leave that stuff out for voting and post it only if that pic wins.

BTW congrats SANDEE!

 

[Sandee]

I agree, no words just the photo ... and on the honor system. Enhanced ok, no PhotoShop or image manipulation.


Sandee | Sent from my iPad

 

[AJ1080]

Im all for the photo without any enhancements or manipulations. Fixing an underexposed, overexposed, out of focus, wrong aperture, etc. automatically with a computer program takes away from those pictures that have not been altered. In reality though, it can't be enforced.

If we are worried about the someone with expensive equipment winning all the time then why not put a limit on how many times someone can win, whether it be once a quarter or once a year?

Just my thoughts on it and not to take anything away from Sandee.

 

[malulu]

- limiting the winning times would not help much, there are only 12 months in a year, even we say once a year, the top 12 people with good equipment is most likely to win, and we have few hundred members.

- two of the main issues ( In my own opinions ) are (1) the normal skill set members don't like to submit as they think their pics are not good enough quality as the pro. (2) the pro won' submit as they would like to save some chances for others to win. HENCE we end up with very few POTM submission, normally we only got 1 or 2 pics few days before the deadline, and we need to *hint* people as very good change to win, then they will submission few more the day of the deadline.

- i really prefer the side-liner to explain what is in that pic, the story behind it would make a pic worth while and warm/touch our heart.

- may be we can open up one more vote as BEST PIC FOR NJRC CALENDAR, and this voting will have no gift card reward, BUT, instead, we can made an annually calendar out of them, just to show off their pride. we can also required the photo have to be high resolution images, as this is one of the problem we are currently facing which can not use all the POTM to make calendar.

 

[asonitez]

I loved all the pics. My own submissions for 1 or 2 votes and i was happy ppl thought the were pretty. Congrats Sandee! well played!
As for enhancing. I am a camera Noob. But I read this ken rockwell website found out about aperature/ white balance using pvc pipe to create a white balance profile for pictures and all of a sudden in the last few days got trigger happy taking pictures. heck i subscribe to nat-geo for the pics alone! Most of those pics hold true though . Taken Raw and then worked over in Photoshop to reflect what I was actually seeing with my eye. Since my PC was right next to by tank I was able to take picture and then adjust white balance until it matched what I saw with my eyes. I like taking pictures under actinics so my colors are always psychadelic! lol