I can understand live stock due to time and effort/keeping and raising or how rare or imported but equipment wise(Lights,Skimmers..ect) I don't get it.. Any thoughts?
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Why is this hobby so expensive?
- Thread starter The_Codfather
- Start date
...because we are willing to pay a lot of $$$ for a 1 inch frag so the market thinks we can bare the prices they ask for their goods... ;D
Im all for making a buck or two but i don't need a barrel involved
I actually disagree. The hobby doesn't HAVE to be expensive. No more so than owning a single family home or a car is "expensive".
No one insists that you have to get the LE/TYREE/ scoli/acro/some such hornet zoa.
A 55 gallon tank filled with softies and populated with nemo, cleaner shrimp, firefish etc. would wow almost 90% of the non-reef geeks out there who visit your home. THe lighting could be 2 bulb 110w VHO retro kit and the skimmer could be an older model ASM/Euroreef.
I just visited a buddy of mine who has the Fluval Edge 6 gallon tank. It has a cleaner shrimp and two baby nemos and his visitors love the thing. I even fragged him a sun coral which he dutifully feeds. The total cost is about $200 total.
No one insists that you have to get the LE/TYREE/ scoli/acro/some such hornet zoa.
A 55 gallon tank filled with softies and populated with nemo, cleaner shrimp, firefish etc. would wow almost 90% of the non-reef geeks out there who visit your home. THe lighting could be 2 bulb 110w VHO retro kit and the skimmer could be an older model ASM/Euroreef.
I just visited a buddy of mine who has the Fluval Edge 6 gallon tank. It has a cleaner shrimp and two baby nemos and his visitors love the thing. I even fragged him a sun coral which he dutifully feeds. The total cost is about $200 total.
man you just described my tank minus the light fixture! ;D JK!!
I am actually on the cheap side of the hobby with no sump, no skimmer (but I did order one), and only two pumps in the tank along with my homemade AQ fuge! But I do keep simple corals and a lot of fish!
I agree with Side that sometimes things just don;t need to be so expensive! A light fixture for example sold for hydroponincs costs less than a similar one used for reef tanks! In some cases the only change is the label.
But what really kills me is the price of any acrylic accesories! Any skilled guy like Merv and lots os others can build a sump for less money than what the biggies charge! Shouldn't it be the other way around? Volume and mass production should lower the price, not make it more expensive!
Don't get me started on chemicals and additives... ;D
Rod
I am actually on the cheap side of the hobby with no sump, no skimmer (but I did order one), and only two pumps in the tank along with my homemade AQ fuge! But I do keep simple corals and a lot of fish!
I agree with Side that sometimes things just don;t need to be so expensive! A light fixture for example sold for hydroponincs costs less than a similar one used for reef tanks! In some cases the only change is the label.
But what really kills me is the price of any acrylic accesories! Any skilled guy like Merv and lots os others can build a sump for less money than what the biggies charge! Shouldn't it be the other way around? Volume and mass production should lower the price, not make it more expensive!
Don't get me started on chemicals and additives... ;D
Rod
lol...I paid $120 for my biocube 29 with stand from a fellow reefer. I added a dj panel, a sponge filter and a heater. Added water and hooked up an old fluorescent light from my freshwater days. Works great for growing out the baby clownfish.
Extras are a stevieT box and a tunze ATO.
Like a new car - you could pay full retail with 5 or 6 miles on the car, or pay 20% less for a car that has a few thousands miles on it.
For example: All of my tunze pumps are discontinued/end of life products. I felt the quality of the pump outweighed the likelihood I'd need to service them.
Probably one item that adds up is salt. I know you get a lot of opinions on this but I've seen some great tanks with IO salt - and some absolutely jaw dropping tanks using ReefCrystals.
Extras are a stevieT box and a tunze ATO.
Like a new car - you could pay full retail with 5 or 6 miles on the car, or pay 20% less for a car that has a few thousands miles on it.
For example: All of my tunze pumps are discontinued/end of life products. I felt the quality of the pump outweighed the likelihood I'd need to service them.
Probably one item that adds up is salt. I know you get a lot of opinions on this but I've seen some great tanks with IO salt - and some absolutely jaw dropping tanks using ReefCrystals.
I agree with Phil alot. Though I will say that livestock is very market dependent. We're still a bit shocked at the price difference from Utah to here on drygoods and livestock. Frag prices in particular being about double from there to here.
Also I think that with the number of people online nowadays more people are trying to squeeze every last cent out of reselling items. (a change around these parts I like btw) Give a coral a super cool custom name and you double the pricetag without any other work.
Does anyone remember thermos trading for zoas?
Also I think that with the number of people online nowadays more people are trying to squeeze every last cent out of reselling items. (a change around these parts I like btw) Give a coral a super cool custom name and you double the pricetag without any other work.
Does anyone remember thermos trading for zoas?
Can anyone justify this?.. I know it's rated up to 1000gls with mid bio load.. but come on!!!
Euro-Reef RC1000 Recirculating
Protein Skimmer w/pumps*
PS-ER-RC1000
$3,498.00
Euro-Reef RC1000 Recirculating
Protein Skimmer w/pumps*
PS-ER-RC1000
$3,498.00
where is this home Beverly hills or compton?Hawkeye said:
This hobby is as expensive as you want it to be. NikkiT ran tanks for years with a HOB filter and CF lights. No corals just fish and inverts and it was incredibly cheap. I have seen some amazing softie tanks setup the same way. If you want to go bigger, it is going to cost a lot more.
Fish and corals have been coming down in price over time and they should continue to do so. I do agree on with the acrylic stuff though, sumps sell for hundreds of dollars and people can make them for like a quarter of the price.
Fish and corals have been coming down in price over time and they should continue to do so. I do agree on with the acrylic stuff though, sumps sell for hundreds of dollars and people can make them for like a quarter of the price.
I understand bigger will cost more.. that's the same as anything.. but like the "acrylics" 2" more on a skimmer and it can jump up in the hundreds
I just dont understand why a skimmer has to be so expensive? Its some acrylic with a pump. Same with lighting. I just bought light for outside lighting on a building we remodeled ,a 400 w mh fixture , bulb, and ballast for 75.00. This same set up for a reef would start at prob 300? The top 2 comments i get when people see my tank, after the're "wowed" 
are,,, Isn't saltwater so expensive? Isn't it so much work? I think everyone just puts expensive with the hobby, and therefore everything is expensive, and companies charge what they want. If someone did put out a 50 dollar electronic ballast or a 50 dollar skimmer people prob wouldnt buy it cause they'd automatically assume its crap.
Why is food grade pickling lime ( mrs wages) that is 100% calcium hydroxide with no additives or preservatives only 3.89 for 16 ounces? And stuff for our tanks (kalk) just cost me 17.00 from my lfs for close to 16 ounces? Certain stuff is a joke.
are,,, Isn't saltwater so expensive? Isn't it so much work? I think everyone just puts expensive with the hobby, and therefore everything is expensive, and companies charge what they want. If someone did put out a 50 dollar electronic ballast or a 50 dollar skimmer people prob wouldnt buy it cause they'd automatically assume its crap.Why is food grade pickling lime ( mrs wages) that is 100% calcium hydroxide with no additives or preservatives only 3.89 for 16 ounces? And stuff for our tanks (kalk) just cost me 17.00 from my lfs for close to 16 ounces? Certain stuff is a joke.
A few good points Nick and a few i was thinking about.. Why a exterior light from HD with the same watts cost a lot less then a reef one same with the kalk?.. slap a reef pic on it and jump up the price ???
radiata
NJRC Member
Seems to me that some of the posters here are in need of a course in Economics 101 at their local community college.
Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime costs less at the supermarket because supermarkets operate under a lower markup structure than your LFS. Supermarkets pay a low wage, have a high $ volume, and are therefore able to work on a lower markup. Your LFS pays employees more, has a much lower $ volume, and therefore has to work on a higher markup. (And, FWIW, Ms. Wages at $3.99/lb isn't the best you can do - they sell six pounds on-line for $21.06 ($3.51/lb). Our very own NJRC sponsor, TB Aquatics, does even better with 10 lbs of Smart ReefTM +Kalk (kalkwasser) at $28.99 ($2.90/lb).)
As for skimmers and lighting, there are more manufacturers out there then I'd ever care to count - there is no monopoly in this area where one manufacturer controls the price. And, they're all competing with each other - which is very good for you because more competition means both lower prices and better products. If skimmers (and lighting) are overpriced, then why the h*ll don't you all start up a business manufacturing (either of) them and blow the competition away with your really low prices? You'll make a fortune and retire early! Best of luck with your business venture - I look forward to a really great NJRC discount!
Mrs. Wages Pickling Lime costs less at the supermarket because supermarkets operate under a lower markup structure than your LFS. Supermarkets pay a low wage, have a high $ volume, and are therefore able to work on a lower markup. Your LFS pays employees more, has a much lower $ volume, and therefore has to work on a higher markup. (And, FWIW, Ms. Wages at $3.99/lb isn't the best you can do - they sell six pounds on-line for $21.06 ($3.51/lb). Our very own NJRC sponsor, TB Aquatics, does even better with 10 lbs of Smart ReefTM +Kalk (kalkwasser) at $28.99 ($2.90/lb).)
As for skimmers and lighting, there are more manufacturers out there then I'd ever care to count - there is no monopoly in this area where one manufacturer controls the price. And, they're all competing with each other - which is very good for you because more competition means both lower prices and better products. If skimmers (and lighting) are overpriced, then why the h*ll don't you all start up a business manufacturing (either of) them and blow the competition away with your really low prices? You'll make a fortune and retire early! Best of luck with your business venture - I look forward to a really great NJRC discount!
Nick has a 400 w mh fixture , bulb, and ballast for $299 ;D
Once you know your stores, you know where to shop, once you know the owners, you can talk price. Most stores I go to will match internet pricing, nice thing. One store I go to, The Seachem additives to me are half price. live stock, well, if you need that piece, pay the price, if not shop around, look to the for sale forums, something that may cost $20 in a store you can find at a quarter of that price. The one thing you need to know is what is the best price you have found for what you want, compare, find the lowest you can and wright it down. Now you have the gauge of what is a good deal or a bad one.
Greg
Greg
radiata said:
I see what your getting at but....
I'm sure that Petco, Pet smart, and the other big chain stores get a great discount from their suppliers just like a supermarket does. Prob way more of a discount than a mom and pop lfs gets. And they pay their employees dirt and barely have any employees. So why isn't petcos price for fish stuff ( Live sand, additives, salt, pumps, etc ) way cheaper than a single privatly owned store? Its usually more and there is no "cash" deals. Petco and pet smart happen to be 5 mins from me so yes they are considered to be a local fish store ( that i rarely go to). Wegmans will start you right now at 10-12 an hour with benefits in the meat dept. What does a kid at an lfs make? 10 cash no benny's? So in reality the supermarket pays way better. Even better, stop n shop has UNION butchers, prob cost them a bundle. Plus wit gas electric, insurance, trucking. For What it costs to run a big supermarket for a month, you could prob run a normal mom and pop store for 2 years, or way more. Look at how many employees wegmans has. Prob 50 for a norm day. Look at a supermarkets overhead. They put out a lot of cash each month.
radiata said:
Well like you said ... FWIW... I was comparing one pound quantities because thats how i just bought it, a pound from my lfs in a pinch. And FWIW 10 lbs for 28.99 isnt the best you can do, Tb , our sponsor sells 22.5lbs for 39.99 ;D
radiata said:
Really no comment on this one, Lets be serious. If i did i'd put deltec, coralvue, etc an such outta business and that wouldn't be very nice or good for the economy
The_Codfather said:
I dont think anyone's beating that 400 watt fixture for 75$ cod- Plus its for outdoors so it can get wet.
Bottom line is... Its all a joke. A 48 inch flouresenct bulb is 2 dollars for my garage lighting. A 48" vho bulb for my tank is 24, your tellin me the parts for a vho bulb are 12 times as much as anormal one? come on!
BTW- I really dont care what prices are, ill price shop a ton, but if i want somethin i'll buy it. I knew this hobby wasnt cheap when i got in it and it never will be. That said... Ill always be reefin! I think :
All you have to do is slap a reef pic on the fixture and call it something Aqua ( fill in the blank)Nickjr000 said:The_Codfather said:
I dont think anyone's beating that 400 watt fixture for 75$ cod- Plus its for outdoors so it can get wet.
Bottom line is... Its all a joke. A 48 inch flouresenct bulb is 2 dollars for my garage lighting. A 48" vho bulb for my tank is 24, your tellin me the parts for a vho bulb are 12 times as much as anormal one? come on!
BTW- I really dont care what prices are, ill price shop a ton, but if i want somethin i'll buy it. I knew this hobby wasnt cheap when i got in it and it never will be. That said... Ill always be reefin! I think :
Paul B
NJRC Member
Exactly, I don't find this hobby expensive at all and I have been in it for over fifty years. I really don't have any idea what many people are buying. I buy some MH lamps every 18 months or so and some salt. I don't change much water so I use enough salt to make 100 gallons of water a year. Most of the food I use is from a sea food market. A chowder clam lasts me a month and costs about two bucks.
I do buy worms every few days but they are not very much.
I built all of my equipment but even if I bought it over the years it averages out to very little. I guess my biggest cost is electricity.
I installed solar panels to help with that.
My fish live 12 or 15 years so I don't buy many of those. Corals are expensive but they also live forever unless I do something stupid like experiment or have an accident.
One year on my boat costs more than the fifty years I have into this.
I am retired and not a zillionaire, I live on my pension and some side jobs.