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The 210 tank build
- Thread starter mnat
- Start date
Wow Mike and Nik....nice looking fish.
Thank you guys, the fish are doing very well.
Little update on the tank in general: We have been battling high phosphates for a while now which of course rears its ugly little head in the form of algae. Now even with the nature reef (which helps a ton btw), changing out a ton of phosguard (seachem to be exact), water changes, low stocking and not really heavy feeding, we still can't get the phosphates down. So we had a little pow wow with Ethan and decided the phosphates must be trapped in the rocks and/or the sand. We used all "wild" rock in the build and cured it, but we never etched it or really tested for phosphates, so the rock is certainly a possibility. The problem with the sand is that the overflow of the Elos tank is rated very very low so you can't really put a lot of flow through the overflow. This leads of course to stuff getting trapped in the sand and it needs to be vacuumed quite a bit.
The amazing branch rock which we love (and most people who see our aquascape also love) became covered in bubble algae, other types of algae and even aipstia. This is obviously a problem and we wanted to use this rock.
So action plan:
1. Today we pulled all the rock out of the display and it is now out in the garage sitting in a nice 100g container with a ton of vinegar (the lady as costco asked me what I was doing with all the vinegar and I told her I just was not feeling fresh). The rock is bubbling away nicely and getting nice and clean. It will then be washed rinsed and cycled over the course of the upcoming week.
2. Did more gravel vacs and will do more this week.
3. Moved all the corals down to the frag tank which looks like a tetris puzzle but it will be fine for the next week or so.
4. We will scrape down the back wall and other areas to get the tank sparkling.
5. Increase water changes this week to make sure the nitrates and phosphates don't get out of hand for now. This is not a huge concern as we have the nature reef and a very light bioload for our system.
Good news, we saw our blue stripe pipefish and he is doing awesome.
Future plans: Pick up one or two of the maxspect gyres and work them into the tank to keep stuff from settling. This should help with the sand and rock in general. Right now we just have the mp60 and the very weak overflow which just might not be enough. The mp60 is dialed down, and I know I could turn it up, however having a lot of small fish makes it very hard to have an mp60 running full strength as is does suck in little fish. Might also look at the hydrowizard pump but only if I could sell the mp60 and some other stuff we have kicking around.
Frag tank: After the display is good and settled and we are good to go there, we will focus on the frag tank as that has a good layer of algae as well. The corals will be moved out and the tank emptied and cleaned out and setup again. This will give us the best shot of keep and algae away. There might also be some three day black outs as well and I have to start paying attention to mag levels again as we have some Tech M sitting around.
Lessons for others:
Etch your rock or get real reef, phosphates are the silent killer.
Regular maintenance on sand beds and rock should be done.
Make sure you have enough flow.
Little update on the tank in general: We have been battling high phosphates for a while now which of course rears its ugly little head in the form of algae. Now even with the nature reef (which helps a ton btw), changing out a ton of phosguard (seachem to be exact), water changes, low stocking and not really heavy feeding, we still can't get the phosphates down. So we had a little pow wow with Ethan and decided the phosphates must be trapped in the rocks and/or the sand. We used all "wild" rock in the build and cured it, but we never etched it or really tested for phosphates, so the rock is certainly a possibility. The problem with the sand is that the overflow of the Elos tank is rated very very low so you can't really put a lot of flow through the overflow. This leads of course to stuff getting trapped in the sand and it needs to be vacuumed quite a bit.
The amazing branch rock which we love (and most people who see our aquascape also love) became covered in bubble algae, other types of algae and even aipstia. This is obviously a problem and we wanted to use this rock.
So action plan:
1. Today we pulled all the rock out of the display and it is now out in the garage sitting in a nice 100g container with a ton of vinegar (the lady as costco asked me what I was doing with all the vinegar and I told her I just was not feeling fresh). The rock is bubbling away nicely and getting nice and clean. It will then be washed rinsed and cycled over the course of the upcoming week.
2. Did more gravel vacs and will do more this week.
3. Moved all the corals down to the frag tank which looks like a tetris puzzle but it will be fine for the next week or so.
4. We will scrape down the back wall and other areas to get the tank sparkling.
5. Increase water changes this week to make sure the nitrates and phosphates don't get out of hand for now. This is not a huge concern as we have the nature reef and a very light bioload for our system.
Good news, we saw our blue stripe pipefish and he is doing awesome.
Future plans: Pick up one or two of the maxspect gyres and work them into the tank to keep stuff from settling. This should help with the sand and rock in general. Right now we just have the mp60 and the very weak overflow which just might not be enough. The mp60 is dialed down, and I know I could turn it up, however having a lot of small fish makes it very hard to have an mp60 running full strength as is does suck in little fish. Might also look at the hydrowizard pump but only if I could sell the mp60 and some other stuff we have kicking around.
Frag tank: After the display is good and settled and we are good to go there, we will focus on the frag tank as that has a good layer of algae as well. The corals will be moved out and the tank emptied and cleaned out and setup again. This will give us the best shot of keep and algae away. There might also be some three day black outs as well and I have to start paying attention to mag levels again as we have some Tech M sitting around.
Lessons for others:
Etch your rock or get real reef, phosphates are the silent killer.
Regular maintenance on sand beds and rock should be done.
Make sure you have enough flow.
What has done so far:
1. All rock pulled and soaked overnight in vinegar.
2. We spent today hosing and scrubbing it all off. Very white now and lots of dead stuff. Bubble algae still alive but comes off much easier.
3. Back into fresh water to soak a bit, we will monitor and switch to salt towards the middle of the week.
1. All rock pulled and soaked overnight in vinegar.
2. We spent today hosing and scrubbing it all off. Very white now and lots of dead stuff. Bubble algae still alive but comes off much easier.
3. Back into fresh water to soak a bit, we will monitor and switch to salt towards the middle of the week.
It did plenty, trust me. The rock is stripped white and it actually became brittle as we broke a few pieces by just setting them down. I think if we used anything stronger, we would have been left with a pile of rubble.
I tell ya dude.. if it isnt 1 thing or the other with this darn hobby lol! I think a sick part of us actually love these complications. In my new Place with all the space it becomes so easy to get carried away with tanks and stuff lol. I noticed you switched your lighting back to T5's.. is it a ALL t5 or the ATI Hybrid series?
ATI hybrid fixture, and yes I agree this hobby can be maddening sometimes but I guess it if was easy we would not have reef forums to commiserate in the fun. Soem corals responded very well to the LEDs and some did not, so we figured lets go with the best of both worlds and run the hybrid fixutre. It seems that going with both is becoming more popular as people want more even spread and better colors. With the dimmable fixtures, my electricity bill did not go nuts as I don't have to run the T5s at full power (they peak around 60) and the LEDs peak around 30 and I still have plenty of light. We even bleached some SPS at first and start all of our corals on the sand bed.
I have been keeping an eye on TRITON Aquatics. They came out with that case at MACNA which is basically an ATI fixture with space inbetween for you to add your own LED's. Part of me wants to try a Radion Pro's with the T5's which should basically give me the ultimate fixture. I think I will look into it when it becomes available. Until then I'm using the CoralVue All in one fixture which is Halides and T5's. I'm dealing with HEAT... but its not unbearable or anything.
I agree with whom ever said the vinegar for one day wont be enough to etch the rock. I've ready that muratic acid is the way to go. It will bubble tons of crap off the rock. And to remove phosphate a lot of people run the pool grade stuff with great results. I think the vinegar will clean but do little for phosphates.
James, the problem with running closed loop is that the pumps can be electricity hogs and our tank was not drilled/setup for that. I think with the new advances in powerheads we will be just fine as now we can aim pumps at the back walls.
Yes muriatic may be the best way to go but we went with the vinegar route on recommendation. We will be testing and retesting the rock so if there is any more phosphates leaching out, we will just toss the rock. At this point, the rocks are nice and clean and we will see how it goes.
Yes muriatic may be the best way to go but we went with the vinegar route on recommendation. We will be testing and retesting the rock so if there is any more phosphates leaching out, we will just toss the rock. At this point, the rocks are nice and clean and we will see how it goes.
Mark, consider us the experiment.
If the vinegar does not work, we will try something else, but we wanted to try vinegar first. If we have wasted a week, so be it, we will have learned something from it. 90%+ of our rock was new with this tank, it had never been used before. We bought it from a reputable fish store, it was not traded in "cooked" rock from someone else's tank, and we cycled it for about 12 weeks before setting the tank up. Sometimes you just end up with a nasty batch of rock. As mike said previously, we love the shapes of this rock, so I am hesitant to start again from scratch, but if we have to we will.
We have been going through phosphate media like it is going out of style with no effect, so we figure this is worth a shot. We will see how it all plays out. I will say that the vinegar alone softened the rock considerably, and I would be extremely careful before doing anything with muratic acid. I could easily see it dissolving the rock if it was left for too long. The vinegar alone made the rock brittle.
Are you doing regular water changes? When I had a phosphate issue I used kents phosphate sponge, it really works. http://www.marinedepot.com/Kent_Marine_Phosphate_Sponge_Phosphate_Remover_Chemical_Filter_Media-Kent_Marine-KM9151-FIFMCHPR-vi.html
Yes we were doing them sometimes more than once per week. We tried every trick in the reefer hand book and we could bring the levels down, but they would always go back up.
Yes safety and ease of use were a factor as well as consulting with Ethan at Ao. I agree with my wife (said every man ever) that it is a good experiment and we will see how it goes.
Hockeynut
NJRC Member
Good luck guys, man I would hate to see that awesome rock you have go. Maybe it's not your rock at all maybe it is your exchange rate that is the root of all of your problems like you were saying mike. Can you drill another overflow in there and return? Is the back glass tempered? If the power heads are moving the water pretty good but just blowing the crap around and its not being exported properly I could see phosphate level going up.
How about another experiment? Maybe try the old fashioned hang on overflow to see if that will help?
How about another experiment? Maybe try the old fashioned hang on overflow to see if that will help?