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Sooo...How was your day?

I

IrradiatedReef

My .02 here. I think you had a power surge. I am hoping you have your tank grounded, as everyone should. According to one of my reference books, an electric surge of 20 volts running through a fish tank is like the
"difference between the noise of a jumbo jet taking off and the sound of a snowflake falling on velvet." <at this level, the electricity is more noise being detected through what ever sensors fish have> One good pop of 120 volt from a surge is like hitting your fish with a stungun that runs on high amp. Its either 6mA or .6 mA to stop the human heart!! Either way, that is very little compared to the 15 amps that could potentially blast its way through your tank.

On a side note, the referenced 20V above is something that very well can be trickled into your tank on a constant basis from powerheads, heaters, etc. Grounding your tank will reduce this to 0. Larger tanks can get up to almost 50V!! "Hobbyists have reported remarkable changes in the behavior of both fishes and inverts after grounding to eliminate voltages in the 5-to-30-volt range. Specimens that tended to be nervous, shy, or hide all the time no longer exhibited this behavior, begin to feed more avidly, and exhibited a more healthy appearance in general." (John H. Tullock, Natural Reef Aquariums)

I would hide too if it sounded like I had a jumbo jet powered up 24/7 in my livingroom!
 
B

Brian

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Thanks again for all the input everyone...

I did have a few cukes in the tank, But they were small, and honestly, I haven't seen them since the first week of the invert buy, so I think they died awhile ago. They were tiny as well...

I think my cleaner shrimp are loving it though.. I saw them munching on a chromis in the back of the tank. Unfortunately, there are a few spots in the tank that I just can't reach....So I guess free meals for my inverts!
 
B

Brian

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
I do have a ground probe running on the tank, and as stated earlier I have all GFI outlets (3 of them all seperate 20amp circuits). I was trying to see if something happened through my ACjr. If there was a power surge, usually something in the house would be flashing, or I would need to reset the recievers for my directv. I haven't had that infamous tingle when I put my hand in the tank... I guess I need to get a voltmeter and test it out.. The only problem is, I don't have a voltmeter, and I wouldn't know how to use it on the tank anyway! :)
 
I

IrradiatedReef

Can get one at Radio Shack for under $20. Set the meter to the appropriate voltage range you want to read <all meters are different but I would use in the 20-50 range> and stick the black probe as far down in the tank you can and keep the red probe high in the water.

Is your ground in the tank or the sump? your ground, although ugly, should be in the tank for optimal effect.
 
I

IrradiatedReef

A surge is more of a blanket statement here. Could be anything from the power company pushing too much power, to a powerhead starting to go and giving off a sudden leak of power and suddenly stops. I lost a lot in my tank from a powerhead going bad. Actually saw an arc of electricity go from the powerhead to the ground before the GFI popped. Then a black carbon ich oozed out of the powerhead contaminating the tank. While I was trying to manually skim this ich out of the tank, I was watching fish slowly go belly up to the reef tank in the sky.
 
S

Sorcha

OMG - I'm so sorry Brian and Deb! That would drive me out of my head...and definitely push Scott over the edge. :'(

Everytime I hear stories like this I swear I can hear the ice cracking under my feet. Aside from an Ich infestation, we've been pretty fortunate. *knocking wood, crossing fingers & toes*

Seems these things are unavoidable in the long run when I hear them happening to such experienced aquarists.

Hang in there.
 
W

Whitebird1

Little thing I did for safety on the air intake on my skimmer, I took a tupperware container and filled it with filter floss and carbon so that the air being sucked in passes through that first.
 
C

cmsurfr22

not sure if you even have these but you don't have flatworms do you? if you have enough of them and they all die for some reason they can release enough toxins to kill fish. this is a longshot and not even a possibility if you don't even have flatworms but i'm grasping at straws here.

we need a smiley that is scratching his head....
 
C

cmsurfr22

Whitebird1 said:
Little thing I did for safety on the air intake on my skimmer, I took a tupperware container and filled it with filter floss and carbon so that the air being sucked in passes through that first.
Click to expand...

great idea!
 
S

Sorcha

debfife said:
If the fish died as a result of toxins or other death in the tank shouldn't the water tests have been abnormal?
Click to expand...

That's what I would think. And wouldn't an electrical current of some kind have effected the corals in some way?

I'm going with Renee's theory, something happened to the "breathers" in the tank.
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
Most tests would show normal results. You might find high phosphates, silicates, copper, ... without showing abnormal PH, Alk, ... readings.

Nagel lost a lot of his breeding pairs/fry last summer because of something his neighbor did in their yard. I don't know if it was pesticides, etc.

That shouldn't be an issue in the winter, so obviously I'm not pointing to something like that, but some things can't be tested for. Toxins from paint fumes, cleaning chemicals, etc probably wouldn't test out. It would be interesting to put a piece of that poly pad in there and see if a predominant color appeared. They supposedly change colors based on the toxins/contaminants that they remove from the water.

Unfortunately I don't think you're going to ever find out what happened. The best you can do is watch what you have left, do some big water changes and tread gingerly into the market for new fish.

It's definitely the cruddy thing about the hobby. Things look great. Until they're dead. I'm not sure I'll ever understand it either.

You have my sympathy. :(
 
S

Sorchasotherhalf

What did the dead fish look like? Arched back, gills flared, mouth open? Did larger ones tend to die first? I'm thinking a "perfect storm" of PH, and temp fluctuation, not large enough to kill enmasse as that typically takes relatively high fluctuations to kill that fast, but enough to cause a low DO problem?? DO is at it's lowest in the mornings to start with, and PH tends to fluctuate the most at night which could deplete DO. So given the time of day the initial fish were found feeds into the theory of a low DO problem.
I would be scared to put any more fish in for months if I couldn't figure it out and take steps to rectify!! *sigh*
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
The first fish to die were small ones. Followed by all of the larger fish and some more smaller ones during the day while they were at work. It does sound like a low DO issue, but again the ACJr tells him that things were nice and steady. No spikes, drops, nothing.
 
D

debfife

All of the fish looked normal, just dead.

I'm not sure where a toxin would've come from. Nothing has been cleaned, pained, etc down there.

Maybe Brian gave them the flu. He had the flu for the last week and has been perched on the couch down there.
 
Phyl

Phyl

Officer Emeritus
Officer Emeritus
In a DO problem you'd lose your largest fish. It would stand to reason that the smallest, least active would survive. They don't need as much oxy as the larger fish or the faster moving fish (higher metabolisms, greater oxy requirement).
 
S

Sorchasotherhalf

Would also explain why the corals seemed unaffected. I've read the best way to avoid the situation is to have calupera growing in the sump and run lights in the sump at night while the tank lights are off and vice versa.
 
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