Sooo...How was your day?

[kathainbowen]

I'm so sorry for you guys. I know how much it sucks to have a massive die-off or crash. I do wonder at what's going on the tank... how detailed of a post-mortem did you do, Reefdrumz? I see a good external examine of the fish, as well as overall water-quality results and equipment checks. Maybe there's something small we're missing.

The reason why I ask is because I once had a simple, two to three minute long gill check of a few specimens help diagnose and confirm supsicions of certain issues with die-offs. If you get to the animal shortly after death, and if it is non-venomous, it's really easy to check by using a dull knife to lift the gill plate. In my case, sadly, my quick gill checks confirmed suspicion of KHV after ten of my favorite new koi died in quarenteen (after three weeks of being completely stable, eating well, and behaving normally) within 48 hrs of one another.  :'(

Just trying to be helpful.  ???

 

[Brian]

I have a 55 fuge that is packed with caulpera. The lighting is on 24/7.

Chris...There aren't any flatworms in the tank. (thank god!)

I'm telling you, it's the NJRC meeting god that doesn't want me to have a meeting...
Last time I was supposed to have a meeting my 240g cracked, now here we are again, about a month away from my meeting... and WHAMMO!

Most of the fish had thier mouths wide open.

Here is my problem with the DO. Wouldn't I have noticed the fish gasping or sitting at the top of the tank trying to get air...gills pumping? The night before I was really looking at the tank with one of my buddies, we were really looking at everything, I think I would have noticed something. Unless it's a case of something just sucking all the oxygen right out of the tank overnight.

 

[Brian]

Kath-

I didn't "examine" them in the sense of performing an autopsy. I looked for spots, cloudy eyes and such. Never did I think of looking in the gills.

Wish I would have thought of that yesterday!

 

[mynd]

In my experience the only thing that really caused a mass death was electrocution. Any chance one of your heaters has a hairline crack in it? Maybe those fish got the discharge? If you have not done a huge water change, introduced any new toxins into the tank ( did someone do some cleaning in the area? ) aerosol? there is not much left. I know you are a veteran here, but could you have missed a potential hairline crack in anything electrical that no longer works?

PS.. really sorry to hear about your losses. I had a fish once in the past that was my only friend during a long time love and breakup. He became my best friend for awhile and died due to a faulty ceramic heater. His name was Snoopy.

 

[JohnS_323]

Staring at the tank with one of your buddies, huh?  Have you checked them for Psorosis of the Liver?

Sorry Brian, just trying to add a little levity to an otherwise awful situation . . . .

 

[kathainbowen]

I wasn't saying to cut the thing open and perform a necropsy. (*I only suggest that with sharks and only to check the stomach contents- see if it was ever eating and, if so, what.... mostly because the shark tummy is easy to find). Just an extensive look of the overall external conditions of the animal.

If I hadn't have spent so long at the petshop, I would have never thought to do gill checks after a sudden die-off either, so don't feel bad. However, after having to figure out from pretty weird tank crashes or unusual things, you start to develop weird mental check lists or flow charts of what to ask. It's an old habit of mine that, after seven months of "officially" being out of the field, hasn't yet given up the ghost.  

Unfortunately, fish are tough, especially some of the specimens you had. The can be really hard to diagnose, sometimes downright impossible. Look at what happened to the Georgia Aquarium's Ralph after two years of doing beautifully alongside Nortin. Some of the best facilities in America, with top researchers, and the staff still hasn't any idea what happened two months after he died.  :-\

 

[Brian]

Staring at the tank with one of your buddies, huh? Have you checked them for Psorosis of the Liver?

Oh damn! Fish don't like Yuengling? Maybe that's the problem

Mynd - The heaters are all titanium...

I guess I have to chalk this up to the Nature Of The Beast I guess.

 

[Sorchasotherhalf]

Okay, sounds like you can scratch off DO issues as a possible cause.

 

[kathainbowen]

What was the answer to the question about cucumbers?

I lost the posts somewhere. Didyou say if you ever had any cucumbers or sea apples in your tank? *shudder* Bleh.... disgorging. Gross, gross, gross. Although, if you catch it fast enough, remove the animal, make sure you're got a good load of carbon and/or purigen, and do some good water changes, you should be in the clear.

... though, you did say it happened at night.... which is when most sea apple or cucumber related incidents occur (*mostly because the reef keeper is asleep and doesn't know it has happened, so they can't tale the proactive steps needed to counter a disgorging.)

???


... iunno. You've got me very puzzled, Reefdrumz. I like being puzzled and figuring things out, but this is a real pickle.

 

[RichT]

but this is a real pickle.

I thought it was a cucumber. LOL

Anyway, I think he got the same cucks from Reeftopia that most of us have and i don't think there the toxic type.

 

[Brian]

You're right Rich... Same cukes... I haven't seen them since the week I put them in.. So god only knows where they are or if they are still alive.

 

[kabal2]

Brian sorry to hear about the problem with your tank, if you need anything please let me know

Gabriel

 

[RichT]

We haven't addressed visual stress yet. You don't have any KISS posters near the tank do you? Or been running around near the tank in your underwear? maybe? no? just a thought.

 

[Brian]

We haven't addressed visual stress yet. You don't have any KISS posters near the tank do you? Or been running around near the tank in your underwear? maybe? no? just a thought.

What if I was running around the tank in my KISS underwear?!?!

That would scare anyone!

 

[debfife]

We haven't addressed visual stress yet. You don't have any KISS posters near the tank do you? Or been running around near the tank in your underwear? maybe? no? just a thought.

I think Rich might be on to something. The tank is SURROUNDED by kiss stuff!

 

[RichT]

What if I was running around the tank in my KISS underwear?!?!

If you were twirling your sticks in your fingers (like mini batons) at the same time I think we can call it "case closed"!

John and Bill are due to chime in soon.

 

[RichT]

We haven't addressed visual stress yet. You don't have any KISS posters near the tank do you? Or been running around near the tank in your underwear? maybe? no? just a thought.

I think Rich might be on to something. The tank is SURROUNDED by kiss stuff!

Where isn't there KISS stuff in your house? Wait......do I really want to know that?

 

[blange3]

Chiming in! ;D

Would we be discussing the KISS of death???

Sorry I haven't been posting, but I have been thinking and catching up I seem to have gone down all the same paths as the others.

I'd be inclined to go with a sudden DO drop. The big tangs probably went first and started the chain off. The other thing might be a sudden temp drop.

Have you been programming the ACJR recently? Could you have some sort of statement that's shutting down the pumps or the heaters during the night?


I think for therapy you should come over tonight and get some new Zoas!

 

[debfife]

I got home and RAN downstairs to check things out since Brian won't be home for a while. All of the corals and clams look normal. Clown goby is still fine, eyelash blenny is fine, both of the clowns, cleaner shrimp and the rest of the inverts all look alive and well. Checked the skimmer, sump, fuge, all look normal.

All in all, everything looks normal except for the lack of fish in the big tank.

Mystery remains unsolved.

I still think Brian gave them the flu.

 

[RichT]

Brian needs to go into the quarantine tank!